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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > What prevents a lady from leaving Ukraine if she has a debt? Author Post Harvey Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/6/2011 9:58:51 AM   one question that hasn't been brought up. how does the supposed X-M-I-L know all about her supposed plans to leave? it seems to me that if there is animosity over a supposed loan between the two, why has this only now become a point of contention? why didn't the supposed MIL try to recoup this money last year, five years ago or whenever? if there is no love between the two, how does the supposed MIL know all about her supposed plans? I would use Johnnie Chocran's Chewbacca defense on this one. It doesn't make sense. It just doesn't make sense. You must acquit! However, if this is all actually true and you trust the lady and believe in her %100, why not try to make a deal? Offer to pay $1000 to get the old hag to shut up already and see if that works. In the grand scheme of things $1000 is nothing. Her flight over will cost that much. How much have you already invested over the years seeking your lady? What's another grand or two? It is why many companies settle out of court. It just isn't worth the time, expense or effort to haggle over a small amount. Although this may not seem like a small amount to you, the cost of trying to win the battle will add up. And you must ask yourself, 'Is it worth it?' durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/6/2011 10:46:13 AM   @Mini Cooper: "She said this law came into effect last year in Ukraine." We say in America, "I'm from Missouri," meaning "I don't believe something until I see it." I'm a little skeptical about this law -- this is the first time I have heard about debt collection as a bar to travel in any country anywhere! I'm not saying that this isn't the truth, but I certainly want to know more. For one thing, if there IS such a law, then many thousands of foreign men wanting to marry Ukrainian women are likely to encounter such situations -- and if there is no such law, then it will be helpful for us to know about it! In other words, this is a Big Deal, and it is in the interest of many of us to find out what's really going on. Rag'n'Bull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/6/2011 11:17:14 AM   (But she mentioned that shingrin (spelling) to travel to eastern europe or America would be monitored and she would be stopped at the airport) Mini, Each country only has one immigration database. You'll have been thru Ukrainian airport(s) yourself whereas they take your passport and run it thru a scanner, they only have one scanner, not a whole bank of scanners, in the little kiosks where these immigration officers sit. Your lady is lying to you, perhaps intentionally, perhaps because she is ignorant, if she is ignorant then rather than admit to you that she doesn't know something she's feeding you a load of bullshit which is much the same as lying and it does seem somewhat coincidental that this situation has 'exploded' only when her interview is immediately imminent. Just don't allow yourself to panic or allow her to, so to speak, hold a gun to your head. There are ways around this, she can easily exit Ukraine as already spoken of, and if she's not listening to you now then she has 6 months to start listening to you before the visa expiry. If in 6 months she is still not listening to you then you're better off without her, and I say this having 'been there, done that' a couple of times. Harvey Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/6/2011 12:00:12 PM   yes, it clearly is a big deal. but mini is already in a unique (perhaps?)situation in that this has now become quite an issue to deal with. it comes down to knowing the person well enough from the get go. if this debt was that important why did it take so long for it to surface to become such an issue? we can speculate all we want but only minicoop knows the what, where, when and how. whether or not he why is another matter. if this turns out to be a real issue/law as maxi has pointed out, then it could turn into another motivator to use deception. and there is evidence of deception used from the past. in mini's case he has to deal with the here and now. future seekers must take this into account as a possible hidden burden. I have seen ads and hints for private investigators. it is sad that using one may become a necessary evil. Harvey Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/6/2011 12:04:07 PM   durak - I don't think everyone knows that missouri is the "show me state". clever reference. beemer18 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/6/2011 2:28:11 PM   To add my 2cents..... 1) Cooper was told 2 years ago about girl's debts, so this didn't crop up recently. I doubt if this is something schemed up for that long...doesn't make sense on this part. Only Coop knows if after 2 years this girl is trustworthy or is conniving. It makes a lot of sense for the MIL to suddenly want to be repaid now knowing girl possibily has access to $$$$$.....and now makes a threat( most likely falsely) of new law to prevent from leaving country. Sounds like a routine threat similar to trying to get an ex to sign docs for a child to leave the country. As in all cases in all countries it comes down to money!!!!!!!!!!!!! Question.....how did MIL find out about girl's visa process????? ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/6/2011 8:37:11 PM   1. How many banks, or similar, will loan to people who have little or no security?america If that's true about American banks, I would have been in Ukraine and back by now. 2. How many banks, or similar, loan money whereas not a single damn cent is repaid? america That is ridiculous. Banks are there to make money. 3. How many mothers-in-law just happen to have a spare $10,000 to dish out? america My gf's ex was rich. His mother had that much, many properties and more. Her problem with him was although he paid for the household bills, he paid nothing for her kid. ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/6/2011 8:53:46 PM   Kiwi North posted: "thats exactly what America was doing and why they are in the shit now, from what i understand these people were never held accountable for their mortgages, wicked scams of inflated prices on these property's to fool banks, people living in homes they refuse to pay mortgages on. i had heard of people who have made millions because of the poor criteria needed for its mortgages and accountability." I don't know how such news gets out. The American banks bad decisions came because real estate values doubled to quadrupled in as little as two to three years. Poor criteria for mortgages were allowed by these banks in the mistaken thought that the prices will never go down again. It is not possible to fool banks on property values. Property values are based mostly on the prices of similar properties sold within the area. Properties were sold for that amount. People who made money in this as any other business venture, are those who bought low and sold high. Most, including the banks lost BIG TIME. Because the banks accepted the poor criteria, many were not able to pay their mortgages and lost their homes. The banks were left holding high valued real estate whose value went down continues to go down. Harvey Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/8/2011 4:50:39 AM   I don't know how this turned into how american companies lost their asses and had to be bailed out. another form of obama care. freddie mac, fannie mae, sub prime lending... I don't want to get into a debate over it here. but danny is partially right and kiwi is partially right. rb you need to go back and do your homework because you don't know what you are talking about. sure the fact that the housing values dipped had an effect. but if millions of loans were not given out to those who could not pay them back the housing market may not have soared as it did. did acorn have a hand in this? maybe. did the clintons? maybe. it goes back to jimmy carter and started way before that. but only recently - as in the last decade - it snowballed... back the story, in the last episode our hero was questioned about the MILs involvement and how did she know about plans to leave... if this lady is stuck and will have to pay a loan then she should make a good faith effort to start paying it back. make an agreement to pay the loan over several years. she should be able to leave with the right sort of legal help if it comes to that. Rag'n'Bull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/8/2011 8:00:32 AM   Talking of unpaid utility charges ..... I've just had a court summons this morning brought against me by a water provider. Out of the blue the water provider have been demanding circa $800 from me for this year's water standing charge and metered usage for a property I do not live at nor do I own, i.e. they're billing me for someone elses charges, they're writing to me at one address for water that I am supposedly using at a different address 150 miles away! To respond it would cost me postage and/or phone calls so I've been ignoring them and I'm laughing that they're spending further monies, lawyers etc, taking me to court. I've responded, online, to the court that I don't owe these monies but I'm convinced the water company will continue with their actions against me which may well result in me sueing them for my court appearance costs, private car usage, hotel, subsistence allowance etc. ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/8/2011 11:59:19 AM   Ralph, I do not disagree with your point. Yes, everyone, including the poor got into the real estate market and made it soar. The banks didn't see that cause. The banks only saw that they would get their money back since real estate prices were going higher. Those with poor criteria would simply refinance. I think Kiwi and Danny are partially right too, but I don't know who made millions out of the deal. It was Bill Clinton's liberalizing the Community Reinvestment Act and the inability of George Bush to tighen it because of a liberal congress. http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Rec/rec.gambling.poke r/2008-09/msg10804.html This is from a small news group, but research it, and you will find it true. The real cause was not the BIG BIG news. It's effect was. Yes, back to our hero. This is best solution I have seen so far: if this lady is stuck and will have to pay a loan then she should make a good faith effort to start paying it back. make an agreement to pay the loan over several years. she should be able to leave with the right sort of legal help if it comes to that. Mini Cooper Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/8/2011 7:49:58 PM   All, My fianc¨¦e sent this to me yesterday and today I asked her to send the link to the website that contains this information, this has large ramifications for anyone wanting to marry a Ukrainian woman. I translated it using Google translate but I'll include the Russian text also. She wrote: I read: "The Law of Ukraine on the Procedure for Exit from Ukraine and entry to Ukraine citizens of Ukraine, there is only one item, which concerns the prohibition of departure from Ukraine:" Article 6. Grounds for temporary restrictions on the right exit of Ukrainian citizens abroad Ukrainian citizen may be temporarily denied a passport in the following cases: 2) there are outstanding alimony, contractual or other outstanding obligations to fulfill the obligations or settle the dispute by agreement of the parties in the cases stipulated by law or the collateral pledge, unless otherwise stipulated by international treaties of Ukraine; But there is another problem if I have a duty to remain at the apartment may seize and sell it without me, while I am absent. I need this to consult with lawyers In Russian: §Á §á§à§é§Ú§ä§Ñ§Ý§Ñ: "§©§Ñ§Ü§à§ß §µ§Ü§â§Ñ§Ú§ß§í §à §á§à§â§ñ§Õ§Ü§Ö §Ó§í§Ö§Ù§Õ§Ñ §Ú§Ù §µ§Ü§â§Ñ§Ú§ß§í §Ú §Ó§ì§Ö§Ù§Õ§Ñ §Ó §µ§Ü§â§Ñ§Ú§ß§å §Ô§â§Ñ§Ø§Õ§Ñ§ß §µ§Ü§â§Ñ§Ú§ß§í", §ä§Ñ§Þ §Ö§ã§ä§î §ä§à§Ý§î§Ü§à §à§Õ§Ú§ß §á§å§ß§Ü§ä, §Ü§à§ä§à§â§í§Û §Ü§Ñ§ã§Ñ§Ö§ä§ã§ñ §Ù§Ñ§á§â§Ö§ä§Ñ §Ó§í§Ö§Ù§Õ§Ñ §Ú§Ù §µ§Ü§â§Ñ§Ú§ß§í: "§³§ä§Ñ§ä§î§ñ 6. §°§ã§ß§à§Ó§Ñ§ß§Ú§ñ §Õ§Ý§ñ §Ó§â§Ö§Þ§Ö§ß§ß§í§ç §à§Ô§â§Ñ§ß§Ú§é§Ö§ß§Ú§Û §Ó §á§â§Ñ§Ó§Ö §Ó§í§Ö§Ù§Õ§Ñ §Ô§â§Ñ§Ø§Õ§Ñ§ß §µ§Ü§â§Ñ§Ú§ß§í §Ù§Ñ §Ô§â§Ñ§ß§Ú§è§å §¤§â§Ñ§Ø§Õ§Ñ§ß§Ú§ß§å §µ§Ü§â§Ñ§Ú§ß§í §Þ§à§Ø§Ö§ä §Ò§í§ä§î §Ó§â§Ö§Þ§Ö§ß§ß§à §à§ä§Ü§Ñ§Ù§Ñ§ß §Ó §Ó§í§Õ§Ñ§é§Ú §á§Ñ§ã§á§à§â§ä§Ñ §Ó §ã§Ý§å§é§Ñ§ñ§ç, §Ö§ã§Ý§Ú: 2) §Õ§Ö§Û§ã§ä§Ó§å§ð§ä §ß§Ö§å§â§Ö§Ô§å§Ý§Ú§â§à§Ó§Ñ§ß§ß§í§Ö §Ñ§Ý§Ú§Þ§Ö§ß§ä§ß§í§Ö, §Õ§à§Ô§à§Ó§à§â§ß§í§Ö §Ú§Ý§Ú §Ú§ß§í§Ö §ß§Ö§Ó§í§á§à§Ý§ß§Ö§ß§ß§í§Ö §à§Ò§ñ§Ù§Ñ§ä§Ö§Ý§î§ã§ä§Ó§Ñ §Õ§à §Ó§í§á§à§Ý§ß§Ö§ß§Ú§ñ §à§Ò§ñ§Ù§Ñ§ä§Ö§Ý§î§ã§ä§Ó, §Ú§Ý§Ú §â§Ö§ê§Ö§ß§Ú§ñ §ã§á§à§â§Ñ §á§à §ã§à§Ô§Ý§Ñ§ã§à§Ó§Ñ§ß§Ú§ð §ã§ä§à§â§à§ß §Ó §á§â§Ö§Õ§å§ã§Þ§à§ä§â§Ö§ß§ß§í§ç §Ù§Ñ§Ü§à§ß§à§Þ §ã§Ý§å§é§Ñ§ñ§ç, §Ú§Ý§Ú §à§Ò§Ö§ã§á§Ö§é§Ö§ß§Ú§Ö §à§Ò§ñ§Ù§Ñ§ä§Ö§Ý§î§ã§ä§Ó §Ù§Ñ§Ý§à§Ô§à§Þ, §Ö§ã§Ý§Ú §Õ§â§å§Ô§à§Ö §ß§Ö §á§â§Ö§Õ§å§ã§Þ§à§ä§â§Ö§ß§à §Þ§Ö§Ø§Õ§å§ß§Ñ§â§à§Õ§ß§í§Þ §Õ§à§Ô§à§Ó§à§â§à§Þ §µ§Ü§â§Ñ§Ú§ß§í; §¯§à §Ö§ã§ä§î §Ö§ë§Ö §à§Õ§ß§Ñ §á§â§à§Ò§Ý§Ö§Þ§Ñ, §Ö§ã§Ý§Ú §å §Þ§Ö§ß§ñ §à§ã§ä§Ñ§ß§Ö§ä§ã§ñ §Õ§à§Ý§Ô, §ß§Ñ §Ü§Ó§Ñ§â§ä§Ú§â§å §Þ§à§Ô§å§ä §ß§Ñ§Ý§à§Ø§Ú§ä§î §Ñ§â§Ö§ã§ä §Ú §á§â§à§Õ§Ñ§ä§î §ï§ä§à §Ò§Ö§Ù §Þ§Ö§ß§ñ, §á§à§Ü§Ñ §ñ §Ò§å§Õ§å §à§ä§ã§å§ä§ã§ä§Ó§à§Ó§Ñ§ä§î. §®§ß§Ö §ß§å§Ø§ß§à §à§Ò §ï§ä§à§Þ §á§â§à§Ü§à§ß§ã§å§Ý§î§ä§Ú§â§à§Ó§Ñ§ä§î§ã§ñ §ã §ð§â§Ú§ã§ä§à§Ó. Mini Cooper Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/8/2011 7:52:39 PM   Not sure what my problem is trying to past Russian text to this forum is... oh well. ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/8/2011 8:10:31 PM   The majority in the forum thinks she was lying. It looks like she's telling the truth. How could that happen? baron555 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/8/2011 9:26:25 PM   Since you decline to PM me, I still have just asked my very knowledgeable couple who I know about this. I'll let you know what they know. durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/8/2011 9:30:01 PM   Mini Cooper, Thanks for the additional information. Searching from what you posted, I found: http://emigration-visa.com/en/79-law-of-ukraine-on-the-order-of- departure-from.html As to this problem with ex-mother-in-law debt, it seems to me that ex-MIL would need to file a case in court, and get a judgment against your fiancee -- and this judgment would demand that she surrender her international passport. If I understood all this correctly, and ex-MIL doesn't win such a court victory, then your fiancee is free to leave -- in other words, the problem may be more hypothetical than real. I certainly agree with her, about consulting a lawyer. It might be that a few hundred spent on attorney fees could clear up any cloud over her ability to leave Ukraine, without the need to pay off all of these debts. Good luck with the situation, and please let us know how it develops. ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/9/2011 1:56:02 AM   I thought maybe there's a statute of limitations in Ukraine. If the laws are similar in the US, don't make a payment or it affirms the debt. According to this, MIL has no case. http://www.hg.org/articles/article_333.html ben2006 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/9/2011 3:31:48 AM   I agree with Durak, except "and ex-MIL doesn't win such a court victory, then your fiancee is free to leave"...shes free to leave now!! Also ask was there any mention of this 'loan' when she got divorced? As when she got divorced it should have been decided that she has to pay 50% (why 50%). For all we know the $10K was spent by the son. Or if it was a business loan did this 'loan' transfer to her at any stage. Seems more like the mother in law paid off her sons loan because that's what mothers do. However that makes it a gift so its a not a loan. If the mother in law takes it to court she has very very little chance of getting it enforced. Rag'n'Bull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/9/2011 3:46:27 AM   Just a thought to look at this from 'reverse angle': I'm not a 'walking and talking lawbook', yes I know my stuff but I don't know every law of my land, particularly a law that might never affect me. So M-I-L makes a threat towards her and she knows where to locate the applicable law on the web? Perhaps but, then again, perhaps not! I've no idea, I'm confused, where the truth may lie in this scenario but, Mini, please take on board that it is possible, reverse angle, that she learned of this new law being introduced and she has created a scenario applicable to that new law and this scenario involves $5,800 of your money! Rag'n'Bull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/9/2011 3:52:26 AM   P.S. And M-I-L had knowledge of that new law to make the applicable threat towards her? !!! Still very fishy ... 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