"But to be honest and fair,, I told them that I was meeting others." How dumb is that? No wonder you fail every time.
A fool tells all. A woman wants to feel special, like you've only come to see her even if you are meeting others. If you tell her that you're meeting others, then you meet the others and go back to her, she's going to wonder what's wrong with you. Why didn't the other girls like you? She's not going to want someone else's reject.
Moya is right that a woman owes you nothing before the actual meeting. She still owes you nothing even after meeting. She has the right to meet others and choose just like you do.
She has the right also not to engage in relations with anyone if that is her decision.
I can understand that you need to lie in the relationships that you might have had,,, but I don’t treat the women as if they were stupid! To travel 8 times zones and only stay 3 or 4 days?? They will figure it out on their own,,,, so why not be honest about it??
TomZero: “How dumb is that? No wonder you fail every time.”
Wrong again,, because I only did that once.
TomZero: “Moya is right that a woman owes you nothing before the actual meeting.”
I haven’t said,, or wrote anything to the contrary! If the women owe us nothing before a first meeting,,, or anytime according to you,,, then what do we owe them???
TomZero: “She still owes you nothing even after meeting. She has the right to meet others and choose just like you do.”
But what if she wants the relationship,,,, and yet,, keeps writing letters to others?? What if she wants to be with the guy,, and is still seeing others?? Let her???
Sure,,,, she can write or see anyone she wants,,, and she can do it without me!!
no, lonely, you are hypocrite! It's you who said: "How serious should a guy get, with a girl that keeps sending out letters to other men??"
And at the same time you were the one who were sending letters (meeting) to 5 women!!!!!
If you owe her nothing she owes you nothing as well!
so you tell her: "i have 4 more girls to meet with".
and she says: "oh that's not a problem, i have 3 more guys for today and 12 more for tomorrow, gotta run meet the next one, cya".
And everyone is happy, according to Lonelyranger's logics.
First of all no one is going to want to be with you in real... So give it up. Stop wasting your time and money. Don't go.
Secondly I don't know what site you're using but what you don't get is that on some sites the girls are being paid for chat and to exchange letters with suckers like you. Should she stop that? Should she quit her job for you?
I wrote to five women,, BEFORE meeting them!! And it was only for that ONE trip. As you both say,, nobody owes anybody anything BEFORE the meeting!
Moya,,, I’d rather die alone,, than marry someone who is only in it to get what they can! And most certainly,, I wouldn’t ever want to marry some ugly, pathetic, smoking bar rag whore who sleeps with guys after 5 beers.
TomZero: “ on some sites the girls are being paid for chat and to exchange letters with suckers like you. Should she stop that? Should she quit her job for you?”
First thing Mr. Zero,,, I don’t spend my time or money chatting. I’ve chatted in the past a little,,, but it’s even more obvious that they are only doing it for the money than the letter writing.
Girls that chat don’t need to quit their jobs,,, cause I won’t have anything to do with them.
I haven’t spent anything on FSU dating since 2012!
Look, this place couldn't be easier to use. Don't search profiles. Look only under "new this month" there's hundreds every month. So you write a few letters. You ask for the girls private e mail. She says "I don't know you that well and if we don't work out, I don't want you flooding my e mail. You tell them, "open a new e mail just for me. If we don't work out, abandon it and it's over." If you have exchanged 25 or so letters there's no reason they won't do this. I never had a problem found this, but what difference does it make as long as your membership here isn't going to end soon? Finding a great wife here is easy. There's people here who are looking for perfect. There's those here who are total losers, just like in real life. Others have no game at all.
Just remember, most posters giving you advice failed at finding one for themselves.
Mr Zero,,, every day that you spend in Ukraine is an insult to women!
Every bad word that I wrote about Moya is actually true,,, so why is it an insult?
She is a bitter, stupid little girl with a thick skull,,, a dunt just like you Tom!
This is about the 4th time we have gone around about my letter writing,,,, and she keeps blaming me for things that I have not done!
She keeps bringing up the same line:
Moya: “no, lonely, you are hypocrite! It's you who said: "How serious should a guy get, with a girl that keeps sending out letters to other men??"
And at the same time you were the one who were sending letters (meeting) to 5 women!!!!!”
When I start writing letters to women, I don’t even ask them if they are writing to others,,, unless they ask me first!!
It’s AFTER the first meeting, when I ask if they are writing to others. The last trip I made was to see a girl for a 2nd time,,, I knew she was receiving letters from other men,,, but I went anyway. I won’t make that mistake again!!
The desire to have a serious relationship was mutual,,,, in the letters! She was promising to visit her home town,,, to meet her friends and her parents. Those words have no value while writing to other men.
You cannot have a serious, lasting, meaningful relationship with anyone that is writing to others.
The only letters that I wrote to 4 of the 5 women after the first meeting, was to ask WTF or say goodbye!
Moya also criticizes me anytime I open a letter from a girl. She’ll write: But Lonely,,,, I thought you weren’t searching anymore???
She is either very bitter about something,,,, or just likes to fight?! I do not apologize for what I wrote,, whatsoever!!
Tom Shea,,, you were just as successful after 4 trips as I was,,,, stop trying to rewrite history!
There is a difference between paying for a girl you've invited out and a girl living off dating as a source of income.
If I invite a girl out to a café or restaurant of my choosing then of course, I'll pay.
It's when she pushes the café or sets the agenda that red flags start to go up. If she's working with the restaurant and getting a 10-20% commission on the bill which happens in Eastern Europe I'm not comfortable with that.
When she starts fingering the menu and chooses the most expensive drink, not because it's a good drink or she likes that drink but because it's the MOST EXPENSIVE, I'm not comfortable with that.
Besides I don't want a chick who is fat or always thinking about eating anyway. I do not want to contribute to her waist line. I want her to stay slender. I've seen so many Western guys go over to Eastern Europe and always taking their girlfriend out to eat, fattening them up. They are shooting themselves in the foot really.
Fortunately my last girlfriend always paid her own. The sad part is she wouldn't stop smoking which I think caused our relationship to end.
I don’t disagree with what you just wrote. I haven’t had any that tried to gouge me in that fashion. Perhaps the closest was the bunch from Sumy,,, the girl, her brother and his girl. They took me to a better place, but it was well under 100usd for the four of us.
Food is a big part of their culture,,, and I’ve been more than happy to sample it.
"Guys, don't act or be too desperate. This is shit-land...a woman from Kyiv told me so,,lol..They want out of shit-land and the shit is piling up here with all their problems.."
Voting in the election earlier this week had a low turnout. Many people who did not vote think there has been no real improvement since Yanukovych's ouster. Prices go up, currency has been devalued, and corruption continues. As one lady in Ukraine said "What good is freedom if I cannot buy a loaf of bread?"
I wouldn't consider taking someone out for dinner an "investment". In fact I consider it the exact opposite.
If I take her out for dinner it's because I want to enjoy her company and maybe taste some exciting food. Not that I want to impress her or win her over with my spending. I've tried that before and failed miserably.
If she can't be with me without my spending my money on her then she's not for me.
Initial meeting: Walk & talk, then maybe a café for tea or coffee. Nothing too elaborate on the first date.
Moya: “why would someone pay for woman's brother and his girlfiend?”
Obviously, you don’t know much about American culture. People seldom go “Dutch” anymore. It’s common for one person to pay,, and then the other person will/should pay next time.
Moya: “Btw lonely, my IQ is much higher than yours but you feel free to think what you want to think J”
I truly doubt that,,, and you sure don’t show it either.
You keep calling me a liar, even after I explained it to you repeatedly. You choose not to believe or understand!
Calling someone a liar is a personal attack, especially on a public forum like this.
I know who I wrote to, and what I wrote in my letters. You weren’t there, I was!
You have been acting so bitter towards me for some time now. Was it after I said that I wasn’t looking anymore,,, and then talked about opening a letter? Or was it after saying I wouldn’t marry someone with red hair?? Or was it after reading that I wasn’t a beer drinker??
I remember when you posted on the 4um,, your requirements for sleeping with men that you meet,,, after 5 beers or 5 dates. Posting that on a 4um of mostly men is akin to putting up a billboard. Not very lady like!
There’s an old saying that goes something like this,,,, If you lay down with dogs, you’ll wake up with fleas!!