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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > Salary in Ukraine? Author Post tribalogical Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/14/2009 7:23:59 AM   VNV, how long did it take you to get conversational in Russian? I lived 12 years in Japan... it took the first 3 years just to get only moderately useful with the language, and 5 before I could really hold a respectable conversation. I'm older now, which means it's harder to pickup new languages. I'm not sure I could cope! :D Granted, Japanese is a hella-tough language to master... even the Japanese say they sometimes don't get it. Pronouncing Russian is a bear (pun intended)... my sister has studied it for a few years, and is pretty good at it. She says the grammar & alphabet is the easy part. All that said, certainly if I was going to live there for any time at all, I'd want to be learning the local language. I'd still want a PA for all kinds of other wanky stuff... it'd take me a month to figure out, he can do in 30 minutes... Your point's taken though. And I agree, it would be the best way to go. I call it "Integrating" :) alexander Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/14/2009 8:24:32 AM   I totally support VNVnation, but I don't think many can afford moving to Ukraine to live here. devilmaycare Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/14/2009 11:05:44 AM   As an aside, the reason agencies generally need to have some west European or american affiliation of some sort is because its pretty much impossible for a russian/ukraine business, especially a small one, to set up a online credit card/paypal/etc merchant account. colin Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/14/2009 11:06:07 AM   agree with VNVnation its the only way to go, unfortunately not possible for all of us durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/14/2009 1:30:28 PM   Concerning tribalogical's analogy of China: In my country (USA), people in even the most rural districts enjoy (on the average) many material benefits, like clean running water, indoor toilets, personal automobiles, etc. And the proportion of population living in rural areas is relatively small. I believe that Western Europe is generally similar in these respects. My impression is that most of the former Soviet Union is (at least roughly) comparable to China, in that people in rural areas are very poor indeed. Indoor plumbing is a rare luxury. Only a few households have personal autos. A high percentage of labor goes into subsistence (meeting survival needs). Thefts of food are frequent - a strong indicator of deep poverty. And in these countries, the percentage of population living in this rural poverty is high. I believe that the rural poor of Russia and Ukraine (for example) are probably doing much better than those of China, but it seems to me that tribalogical's comparison helps to understand the income question. The average income in cities is NOT the average income for the country. I'm sure that some of the people here know much more about this than I do. I've only spent a few days in a rural village in the Russian-speaking world, and for me it was a valuable and interesting experience: I hope to do more in the future. alexander Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/14/2009 2:53:41 PM   devilmaycare, it didn't cost me anything to setup a system, so I can accept online payments by Visa and MasterCard. The reason why local agencies have affiliation to Anastasia or other similar sites is that they just hide behind them. If there is some problem, they can always say - oh, go and sue Anastasia... and how do you think local police is going to do that??? same thing in USA, if someone wants to sue Anastasia, Anastasia says - oh, this is not our fault! that's local agency who did the scam and we punished them, we kicked that bitch out of our site! colin Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/14/2009 3:13:46 PM   in my wifes apartment ,they had cold water in the kitchen and some type of gas hot water in the bathroom very slow to heat. At 6 every evening the water was turned off. When I stayed in a hotel there the water wasnt turned off. Electricity and gas seem to be very cheap as the apartment was warm all the time. Heating was on all the time, even I have to be careful leaving heating on all time VNVnation Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/14/2009 3:28:25 PM   Learning a language (even as we get older) is a matter of motivation and necessity. If you are living in Ukraine with a personal assistant who is translating for you and taking care of your business, you will learn the language much more slowly, if at all. For me, after a month or so of lessons, I tried not to speak any English. After two months, I was dating girls who spoke only Russian. Granted, our conversations were painful and slow, but nothing motivates you to learn a language like sitting across from a beautiful girl and trying to communicate. I spoke Russian every chance I could. In restaurants where the waitress spoke some English, I would say that I didn't speak English and would force myself to speak Russian. After four months, I could handle almost everything in my everyday life. Sure, it took me two weeks to find my own apartment using the classified ads when a personal assistant could have done it in one day, but I did it myself. After six or seven months I was conversationally fluent, and was having normal social conversations without problems. I was making grammatical mistakes, but people understood me and my grammar improved really quickly just from constantly using the language. Knowing the language changed everything. As a foreigner, people had a lot more respect for me once they realized I could speak their language. Girls trusted me much more when they saw that I was serious and not there just as a sex-tourist. Ukrainian girls like it when a man is capable and strong; it's hard to seem capable when you are constantly relying on a translator or asking your lady to call a taxi for you. In my experience, even if you don't go to live in Ukraine or Russia, learning Russian is the most important thing you can do. You will not be limited to girls who speak English, and when you go to visit you will not have to go on dates with a translator (girls hate to be seen with a foreigner and his translator). You can travel independently, and make your own arrangements for hotels, apartments, taxis, and tickets. If you meet your lady's parents, they will be very impressed that you took the time to learn their language. Oh, and back to the original topic of salaries in Ukraine.... people make very little, but as others have said, a few people make a lot. I have friends who make $150-$200 working full time in a restaurant. I have a friend who makes $500 as a mid-level manager after six years in the same company. I also have a friend who lives in a three million dollar house, drives a brand new BMW, and took two vacations to Europe this summer. baron555 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/14/2009 4:40:49 PM   My RW wants to mainly speak in English since when she comes here to the US, she knows that she needs to speak English to get a good job. I didn't go live over there and she has decided to come live with me and we will visit back there often. And she is real and genuine and is only willing to do this because of her feelings for me; if I could get the same paying job over there, then she would want to stay if she could. So, I guess there is no ONE way to do this process. There are many ways to go about it. VNVnation Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/14/2009 5:02:01 PM   Yes, of course, there is no ONE way to do this. I just wrote about my experiences. I used agencies and wrote letters and had limited success. I met some nice ladies, but just found it hard to make a real connection when I had a translator at the table. In many ways it's a numbers game. Some guys meet the right lady on their first trip, others have to go live there. tribalogical Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/16/2009 8:16:21 AM   All good advice, VNV... in Japan, I didn't have a translator. I had to learn my way around. :) I've never been able to get "conversationally fluent" in any language in 6 months, even when I was completely without English as a fallback... I'm 52. We become notoriously slow at picking up new languages after mid 40s... Doesn't mean I won't try! I'd say it's about 80% likely at this point that I'll go, and stay for awhile. Pickup some language, absorb some culture, get a sense of the place. Not sure I'd want to do a lot of "dating"... but I agree, I sure feel like I'm not getting very far writing letters.. need to be there, face to face... Kirkland Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/16/2009 5:42:11 PM   "We become notoriously slow at picking up new languages after mid 40s... " Trib...do you have any scientific evidence of this statement or just your own opinion...just curious as I'm in my mid forties trying to learn 2 languages at the same time. I made some inroads into learning the Russian language a while ago but decided that I'd only really become proficient at if I lived there. Gave it up when it became clear that the notion of living there and the reality of life there are two entirely different things. Good luck if you go...even if you've been around the block a few times Ukraine is still an eye opener if you enjoy a fresh culture. tribalogical Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 10/17/2009 6:37:08 AM   No, not just my opinion. There's a lot of scientific study that shows our synapses don't develop as quickly after a certain point in life, and language acquisition is heavily dependent on synaptic development... learning anything, really. (I'll try to cite some sources, and will post them.) That isn't to say it becomes impossibly hard. On the contrary, we can still learn our entire lives. The problem isn't the learning part anyway, it's the retaining part. One of the processes of learning (and with language in particular) is something called "internalization". It's the step past memorization, where it finally becomes "etched" into structures that allow instant retrieval. It's those structures which don't develop as quickly as we age. I don't know if you play a musical instrument, but part of "practicing", running scales, etc. is exactly for that purpose. To develop the synaptic structures that allow instant recall. Another interesting side note. It's also been show that women typically acquire languages faster and more easily then men. This isn't a universal rule, but is pretty clearly demonstrated through numerous studies. (They think it has to do with evolution actually, and the historically greater demand on women to flexibly integrate with differing groups. It's a survival thing?) So anyway, when it comes time to develop a common language with your new FSU heart-throb, you'll most likely get to mutual communication faster by having her study your language. :) I'm always up for a little adventure. I don't really have any illusions about the culture. A pretty open book, I'd say. And, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to properly learn Russian or Ukrainian without going there to live. 6 months at least, just to get basic & functional is my expectation. Elizavetta Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 3/11/2010 1:53:37 PM   Some people can earn 1000$ for month and some - 100$!This is true! ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 3/12/2010 3:37:23 PM   And what is the job of the ones making $1000's? durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 3/12/2010 7:11:55 PM   Just for reference, the poverty threshold used in the USA for statistical purposes is more than $900/month, so a person making $1000/month is (by US standards) living very close to the poverty line. ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 3/12/2010 9:56:56 PM   I met a man working as an air traffic controller from Simferopol in November of 2008. We were on a train from Simferopol to Kiev. He was proud of the fact that he was making good money at $500 a month to take care of his wife and newborn. Through our conversation, he was humbled when I told him that a man making $500 a month with a wife and kid will probably getting government assistance in the US. Adman Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 3/13/2010 3:30:36 PM   Dan it appears that you spend all your money on vodka. Your experience of everything else seems quite blurred. The cost of food and housing in any major city in Russia is similar to the equivalent in Australia and can sometimes be more expensive in Russia. If you buy a cup of coffee or go to the supermarket the prices are very similar. Easy to spend $200 filling up the trolley with groceries. If you live on a park bench and just spend your money on smokes and vodka, then yes it could be a better deal in Russia, but I dont know how you will get on in winter. ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 3/14/2010 11:34:41 PM   Without getting into rubles converting.... On my last day in Zaporozhye in February of 2008, I asked my then (scammer) girlfriend to take me to a souvenir shop. She took me to a big department store. It was hardly a store for souvenirs. The only thing I bought for myself was two cartons of cigarettes for my friends who smoke and a video. She took the opportunity to buy her family (for her, her mother and child) groceries. I would guess her groceries cost $85 for what she says is a three week supply (I thought it was more like two weeks worth). I thought that was similar to how much that much groceries in the US. gecko Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 3/15/2010 2:46:16 PM   from my experiences living in kherson, i can say some things are cheaper and some more expensive. at one of the central cafe's, i could get a pizza and two beers for $6. that would have been $15 in america. i was paying $600 for studio apartment with internet. technology, i.e. a laptop, was actually more expensive. so was ice cream. you could get bread and pasta real cheap. an expresso at a nice cafe, though, is almost the same as america. one of the nice things about living in a small city, is that dating would not be too expensive. as compared to kiev, where an juice cocktail will run you $7. of course, if thats all your date orders you should probably marry her on the spot! :) Your Reply: Your name:   New Registration Password:   Forgot password?   refresh Code:   Russian brides > Main Forum > Salary in Ukraine?
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