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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > What prevents a lady from leaving Ukraine if she has a debt? Author Post Harvey Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/9/2011 5:44:54 AM   I know someone who is terrified of dogs. And I mean physically she trembles and almost goes hysterical when in the presence of a dog. Whether or not a psychiatrist can cure her I can only speculate. But the root of the problem lies with an early experience she had with dogs. Ivor, not all dogs are bad. Yes it smells fishy. After all haven't we been bombarded with horror stories about these women? Why do corporations, retailers manufacturers etc. have a complaint department but not a compliment department? Because people who are satisfied usually go on about their lives. Rarely do people go out of their way to let someone know they are satisfied and happy with a product. But those same people will not hesitate to register a complaint. One thing I know to be a fact. If it looks like fish and smells like fish, be careful to not overcook it. Too many people destroy a good piece of fish by overcooking. Rag'n'Bull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/9/2011 6:30:48 AM   Ralph, Just go to a site such as Amazon.com , select a product and read the customer reviews of that product, both satisfied and disatisfied customers, likewise search for a hotel/location on tripadvisor.com , both satisfied and disatisfied hotel reviews! But I hear what you are saying but we are talking of a country where so many women are ridden with this 'cancer' of ripping off western men. Someone made a comment earlier in this thread questioning if this scenario might be the new scam, well if you think about it, if this is a law that came in last year it will be doing the 'jungle drums' amongst such women, yes they all talk to each other comparing notes and scams etc, and if this new law is not already being convenienced as the latest scam then it will only be a matter of time before it is. As I've said I don't know where the truth lies in Mini's situation, he's merely provided a general overview of a situation of his relationship, he's lived and breathed the relationship for however long it's been, Mini should take the time to sit back and discect the relationship, past situations, things said or done, then make his judgement call as he sees fit. baron555 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/9/2011 8:56:56 AM   I've PMed you Mini with news from my friend (whose credentials are verifiable) that the MIL is full of it. The US Embassy would not issue a visa to leave the Ukr unless all applicable laws that would prevent it were met....ie notarized letter from a father that a child can leave. Also they would not insert a visa into her Ukr passport if the passport was not valid. If your fiance is given a visa from the Embassy, she is good to go. Mini Cooper Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/9/2011 8:39:11 PM   All, I'm sending this long post is two consecutive messages... seems the forum will not take a long one. Baron555 thank you for your interest and informative answer from your friends, it is appreciated and after reading more about the law I can to the same conclusion... if she gets the visa she can leave Ukraine. Beemer18, the MIL founds out from her son, he infrequently sees his 16 yo daughter and he also was made aware of it because he had to sign a consent paper to allow her to leave Ukraine without him. These rules and thankfully there is a English translation tab on the page so you can view the English version, said that in order to stop her from leaving Ukraine for a debt... that her passport may be temporarily detained or seized. Temporary detention or seizure of the passport in such cases by the courts, prosecutors, internal affairs, security services, the State Border Service of Ukraine, military commissariats and Consular Service of Ukraine. This makes no mention of the security/customs/immigration at the airport stopping her. Mini Cooper Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/9/2011 8:41:52 PM   The link is: http://soderkoping.org.ua/page11397.html Article 6. Reasons for Temporary Restrictions of Citizens in their Right to Foreign Travel. A Ukrainian citizen may be temporarily refused issuance of the passport in case 1) he is familiar with information which constitutes a state secret - until expiration of the term stipulated by Article 12 of this Law; 2) he has unsettled alimony, contract, or other obligations - until fulfillment of obligations or settlement of disputes by agreement of the parties involved, in cases envisaged by the law, or if obligations are left under security, unless otherwise stipulated by applicable international agreements that Ukraine is a party to. 3) a criminal is filed against him - until completion of proceedings; 4) he has been convicted for crime - until the term has been served, or upon deliverance from penalty; 5) he evades fulfillment of obligations imposed by decision of a court - until fulfillment of such obligations; 6) he deliberately presented false information about himself - until the reasons for, and consequences of presenting false information are clarified; 7) he is subject to being called up for military service - until the matter of deferment is decided; Mini Cooper Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/9/2011 8:42:47 PM   8) a civil action is brought against him - until completion of proceedings; 9) he was declared by a court decision a dangerous recidivist, or is under the administrative police surveillance - until expunging previous convictions or termination of surveillance. The citizen of Ukraine who has the passport may be denied the right to travel abroad in cases enumerated in sections 1 - 9 of the first part of this Article. The citizen of Ukraine who has the passport, in case circumstances arise which restrict his right to travel abroad, in accordance with section 1 of the first part of this Article, is obligated to leave his passport in the charge the body of the internal affairs at his place of residence, within one month from the moment that such circumstances arose. Upon presentation of sufficient substantiation, the passport is returned to the citizen or his authorized representative, within 10 days from the day that the request was made. The passport may be temporarily retained or withdrawn in cases envisaged by sections 1 - 9 of the first part of this Article, or in case if the passport is used for committing a crime, or if a falsification in it is detected, as well as in cases of termination of Ukrainian citizenship. Temporary retention or withdrawal of the passport in these cases is executed by the court, offices of public procedutor, bodies of internal affairs, state security service, State Boundary Ukraine Service, military commissariats, and consular service of Ukraine. ( Part 4 changed and amended according to Law of Ukraine #662-IV ( 662-15 ) of April 03, 2003 ) Rag'n'Bull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/10/2011 7:37:52 AM   Mini, I'd say the State Border Service of Ukraine are performing passport control at the airports and I'm of the opinion that a passport may be detained or siezed at any time and particularly by passport control at an airport! But, officially speaking, this loan is 'hearsay', M-I-L says she owes the money, if the lady denies owing the money there is nothing in writing to support M-I-L's claim. durak Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/10/2011 11:55:03 AM   @Ivor: If I understood the law correctly, and some kind of a court order is necessary to prevent exit from Ukraine, then either such a court order is made, and the citizen will know about it; or there is no such ruling, and the citizen can exit through passport control without worries. As a practical matter, my guess is that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (headquartered in that building with the gorgeous curved columnar facade at the top of the hill above Independence Square) would be very reluctant, to get saddled with the enforcement of civil disputes. If my thinking about this is correct, if a person shows up with their Ukrainian passport, they will probably be let through... but this is only my surmise. baron555 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/10/2011 12:21:44 PM   I've posed the regulation to my friend. I'd say that if there is no contract for the debt, then a private citizen would have a hard time convincing a court to impose an order on another individual. Worst case, is that you would notify the Embassy for the need to extend her visa validation beyond 6 months; they do do that. Totally worst case is she is liable.......meaning you. ben2006 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/10/2011 1:13:32 PM   For less than 1/2 than loan balance you can have the MIL taken care of. Just get the visa and ignore her. If her son had some balls he would have paid his mother back anyway. Rag'n'Bull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/10/2011 1:49:14 PM   durak, Laws vary from country to country and some countries may confiscate a passport if an investigation is pending or current and/or if a court case, or similar, is pending. But knowing Ukraine as I do if M-I-L were to slip a cop, let's say, $100 then that could cause Mini's lady some inconvenience(s). But, there is no loan agreement in writing, not a single cent has been repaid in 10 years, I'd say that if M-I-L went to the authorities she'd be laughed at, she hasn't required the loan to be paid back in 10 years so did this loan ever exist, perhaps it was a gift, and why does she suddenly want it paid back now or is she being sheer bloody minded whilst trying to keep her grandchild in Ukraine? ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/10/2011 1:53:19 PM   That's terrible, Ben. It probably will no be Coop, but even if that's true, did you ever consider the possibilty that someone will take your suggestion seriously? ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/10/2011 5:18:47 PM   Ivor, this is a civil matter, isn't it? How could MIL slip a cop $100 cause Mini inconvenience? Is this still about the debt? baron555 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/10/2011 7:47:08 PM   Another PM. Of course this is all BS, as you should know Mini. Only now that she is leaving, after 10 years?, they want the cash? Tell her to not communicate at all with the MIL, set her sights on the interview and the subsequent move to the US. Mini Cooper Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/11/2011 5:48:29 PM   All, Everything is now being discussed with her lawyer, there is a possibility to transfer ownership of the apartment to her daughter, this would prevent her MIL from trying to get a judgement against her to sell the apartment to pay the "fake" debt. However, she would need to pay the utilities (heat,water,electric) because these would have to be paid before there is a transfer of ownership. Looks like she is coming to the USA sometime during the first week of June after her daughter graduates high school! Life is good! ragingbull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/11/2011 6:05:54 PM   In spite of the popular forum psyche that the FSU lady is out to scam someone, she turns out to be honest. Expectation of cynical behavior clouds your thinking. If the other party sees that it is expected of her, she will not disappoint you. RodanTsunami Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/11/2011 6:41:14 PM   Mini: Good luck to you. Now you hear me Rag'n'Bull Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/12/2011 5:50:24 AM   Mini, As a, to be, married couple she becomes entitled to half of yours and you become entitled to half of hers, by signing the apartment over to her daughter you become entitled to 50% of diddly squat whilst she remains entitled to 50% of your estate! Harvey Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/12/2011 6:54:33 AM   not if there is a prenuptial agreement that is properly attained. that will cost another $800. you need two lawyers yours and hers. you must pay for her lawyer, have the document certified/notarized etc etc in her native language. then satisfy the courts that she was not coerced into signing it, she has read and understood it completely and that her lawyer of choosing (preferably one who speaks her language)- whom you must pay for - endorses the document before it goes to the judge for the final stamp. not necessarily a judge but a recorder of writs etc. this has to be very clean from the start or you can get cleaned out in the end. pun intended Harvey Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 2/12/2011 7:31:36 AM   danny that is true - your assets are protected to an extent. what you had before is yours and you get when you are together is both of yours. however, the courts and lawyers will try to find a way to take the whole ball of wax if they can. there are cases where bazillionaires marry some poor mary ann from the sticks. after a couple years her time is up and the he needs a newer model. even if he did not make a dime during that period, she just won the lottery. because she became accustomed to this lifestyle she is entitled to live the dream for the rest of her life. unless joe bazillionaire has a carefully crafted prenup she ain't going back to the trailer park. look what happened to paul maccartney. 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