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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > Sex views of Russian Women Author Post jmoluv Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/20/2005 2:46:37 AM   Like i said before Toad the biggest critics are the ones who never went and have all the answers. It is always the same two words that pop up with you bozos.Meatmarket and hookers. Go to one and then draw a conclusion. GLTALLTOAD Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/20/2005 3:48:56 AM   Jmo, We had this very same disagreement before. We still do, obviously. But where does the need to call us names come from? If you do not like my brash evaluation of your beloved socials, read Spirit's post aboutthem again, mate. toad QuietCharm Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/20/2005 5:07:38 AM   A social can be useful in certain circumstances.. Not everyone wants to go through the weeks and months of writing with only the possibility of there being chemistry between you when you actually meet. Some prefer to just get over there as soon as possible, to cut to the chase. There are those who, having met someone, realise the relationship is going nowhere and then have 2 weeks to twiddle their thumbs in an alien environment. When I started, I spent sometime online, becoming increasingly unsure as to who the hell I was talking to and whether I could trust them. I settled on three, met them, but decided they weren't for me. Instead of going back online again, I went to the AFA offices in St.P to go through their albums of ladies. My reasoning was that I was more likely to see who was current and available and I wanted the opinion of the staff about particular ladies. eg. It says on her profile her English is a '4'. Can you elaborate? She says she is 110lbs. Is that still the case? What can you tell me about her.. and so on. Since I liked several women and wanted to make the best use of my time available, it was put to me, that I could invite them all to a social. Translators were on hand, if I needed them and if I didn't like someone, I.. and they.. could extricate ourselves quite easily. The point is. You don't have to settle for what is on offer. Invite ladies you are genuinely interested in. Get the first meeting over with (in a neutral place), then take it from there. More reluctant ladies may be persuaded to attend, on the basis that they are actually going to meet someone who has shown interest in them. The cost is simply the cost on the door, rather than the whole package. Time any trip to coincide with a social and you have yourself another option. Almost as good, if you want to save money, go to The Red Lion on a Tuesday night. It's free drinks all night for the ladies and is known to be attended by westerners, so will draw ladies who are interested in meeting them. nasfan6 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/20/2005 5:57:06 AM   JMO I don't have to go to one to draw a conclusion. I just know it wouldn't work for me. It's just not my style. Going to bars and picking up women is not my style. If a social works for you fine. I'm not condemning them, I just wouldn't do one. To me a social is to impersonal and is a meat market mentality. A gathering of women, not different than going to a bar on a Friday night and finding you love for the weekend. jetmba. Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/20/2005 6:27:10 AM   nasfan6: I know its hard to beleive but a Social is not anything like going to a bar on a Friday night. Like every single guy here, I'm sure, I've tried going to singles bars and I was a dismal failure. Most of the good looking girls are regulars and they tend to circulate with the good looking guy regulars. Most have no real interest in etablishing a relationship anyway they are just there for something to do. Sure you can always look for a girl so drunk that she loses all inhibitions - but then you've generally got a girl who has also lost her ability to control her other bodily functions like keeping her food down in her stomach (in your car) and controling her bladder. Besides - its alwasy said that a girl looks best through beer goggles. Well I must be wearing them backward - because I become especially aware of the extra fifty pounds she is caring or her obnoxious snort everytime she laughs. Going to a Social is more like being Todd Hamilton at a "Win a Date With Todd Hamilton" promotion. (Those of you who didn't see the movie have no idea what I am talking about. I know. Actually I saw the movie on the plane on my way to Moldova most recently.) Its like being a celebrity and they ALL want to be with YOU. You will fee as if you have crossed into another dimension. Trust me - I have not been to a singles bar in five years in the US - nor will I ever go to one under any conditions again. But a Social? If my current relationship does not work out - I will book a ticket to a Social IMMEDIATELY. They are that good. jetmba. Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/20/2005 6:53:22 AM   It really is unfair, by the way, to characterise Romance Social as sex tours. That seems to me to be a comment made by those in fear of going to one. Seems to be a comment made by those who have struck out in singles bars (as I admit I have) and only see the possibility of quick sex. Or maybe its an indication of self doubt - that you don't think a truly decent woman would stand a chance of liking you until she has had a chance to read your writings (your saving grace). In the history of mankind - do you suppose more successful relationships have spawned from face to face meetings - or choosing girls out of catalogs and sheepishly writing them letters? If you just want to get laid - of course you can find som girl out of the 200-250 present to do just that. But if you want to WRITE to a girl who's only intent is to sleep with you wne you get to the FSU - I can give you a source of addresses and a few websites where the hookers tend to garner customers that way. MOST of these girls are looking for the same thing that you are. MOST of these girls know well in advance when the Socials are held and they make plans around them - putting children with babysitters (if they have them) and gussying themselves up in the hope of talking to a "serious man" (the phrase they use all the time). I'm fairly bright. I have a lot of degrees. I'm generally considered literate (aside from spelling) and can write a decent letter. It would be nice if my prospective matte could write in English well enough to do the same thing at present BUT ITS NOT AN ABSOLUTE NECCESSITY. I am NOT looking to date Emily Dickenson. So by requiring her to be confident enough in her writing ability to write to me in MY native language and to write wonderful prose I am ELIMINATING THE MAJORITY OF ELIGIBLE RUSSIAN LADIES! (Now if I was starting a publishing house and intending to marry a potential in house author - perhaps my priorities would be different.) I honestly get the impression that hose who are against Socials have struck out one-to-many times in singles bars and think that they will here too. Their confidence is blown. And as I said, I feel that they are convinced that the only way they will get someone worthy to consider them is through writing letter (exposing their "inner soul"). By writing letter they feel they have an edge - without which they have no chance. jetmba. Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/20/2005 10:03:12 AM   Toad: Nothing personal by the way - with my above comments. (That means I just checked and saw that you were the one who refered to Romance Social as sex tours.) :) To each his own. And we all have a similar goal - just maybe a different way to accomplish it. I'm just giving fair time to the opposing view. jmoluv Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/20/2005 10:22:00 AM   Thank you Jet and Q.C.. Well said. I have written and met and i attended a social. I have seen both sides of the coin . I try to relate the experience from first hand knowledge and it is if they dont want to beleive it. What is the point of describing what a good social is really like ? They want to keep on using the words hooker and meatmarket and it is not the case . We were there and they were not. I say i have seen women on this sight at a social and they claim that is not true either. I have asked women at a social their opinions on this matter and gave it to you here and it does not matter either. It is almost as if the men here think that women who attend socials belong to a secret society who are out to screw you over. I call it fear on your part. The social tour owners have their own websites where they have all the women you can write to men. Comprende usted? Yes , you can e-mail them to death so they don`t rob you and ask you for sex and a return of money or dinner. That should give you a sigh of releif. Then they the owners simply hold socials to meet these women you e-mail . Hope you aren`t shaking by now. So you see , they are the same women you see on this web . They are just with different agencies that are not featured here. But i have seen a handful here at the social who were private e-mailers. No different than the rest. My apologies Toad. Sometimes i do get a little frustrated. jetmba. Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/20/2005 11:35:22 AM   I see the appeal of writing letters. You are taking small steps to accomplish your goals without a big initial cash outlay or the feared (horror of horrors) chance at going all that way and either getting rejected or being misled. Most of us looking for a Russian lady are here for a reason. You know damn well that thee ARE beautiful American women (granted the percentage is small) and there ARE American women with WONDERFUL personalities (who happen to be happily married to someone else). Most of us HAVE been wounded at one time or another. Most of us have TRIED all the conventional ways to meet the lay of our dreams in the US and we have not succeeded. I think ALL of us have been let down by our lack of success at a singles bar - or the poor quality (personality etc.) of the women we have met. WE KNOW we are not bad guys. WE KNOW that once "they get to know us" and discover the "real us" they will fall helplessly in love with us. (Well we strongly think that to be the case anyway.) So by writing letters we can show a little of our inner-self, relatively risk free and at a minimal cost - and, hopefully, gain a little insight into THEIR inner selves. So we write - we get our courage up - we eventually draw interest and succeed in small steps until we think we have found the right one. Then we go visit ("the moment of truth"). Were we right or were we wrong? That's a fine system. It doesn't cost much. We can take it slow. And we don't have to face what we (most of us) fear most - that dreaded face-to-face rejection. And WHEN we win the attention of a beautiful, often much younger, Russian woman, we can rationalize that she WASN'T drawn to us by virtue of our nation of citizenship, or our much higher standard of living. She was drawn to us by the fact that she took the time to get to know the wonders of our inner soul, through our written word. This wasn't mear physical attrction either (something else that as we age - we are a little less confident about) this was a meeting and attraction of our psyches. That's terrific. But as I've said - it COMPLETELY eliminates women who are not internet competant. It elinimates though who do not feel confident writing letters. It eliminates those who do not choose to maintain a close relationship with a dating agency. (Mine was never even signed up with a dating agency.) A lot of women dislike Socials because no one ever speaks to them (there are simple too many women and not enough men). But MANY hate letter campaigns because and sammers are more likely to have a stomach for it. Why? Because of the often quote figure that only around 2% to 5% of the guys who start writing letters to ladies ever get off their butts and MAKE THE TRIP. A LOT of ladies have been burned many many times. jetmba. Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/20/2005 11:37:11 AM   By the way - I mant that most of us have tried hard to meet the "lady" of our dreams. Not the "lay" of our dreams.... Though I guess we've tried pretty hard to do that as well. GLTALLTOAD Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/20/2005 11:50:08 AM   Jet & Jmo, The term 'sex tours' was handed down to me early last year by the one lady I almost chose to visit over Lena. Also talked about them to many other pre-qualifiers who would not get caught dead attending them. In fact, some potential good ones cut off all correspondence with me the moment I brought up the subject of Socials. A bit of an exaggeration on their part, I thought, but gave me a good indication of what the REAL MAJORITY of FSU women think about these Socials. Guys, you're NOT going to convince me that avoiding the socials that can pack ONLY a few 100s of women in what...eight, ten major FSU cities over 5, 10 or 14 days tours eliminates 10,000s of available qualified women everywhere else. 100,000s of them if you include the ones without foreign language skills and those listed in agencies, not just internet profiles. There are only two major cities with one smaller satellite area/city each holding Socials in Russia. There is no way in hell that avoiding these events will ELIMINATE THE MAJORITY OF ELIGIBLE RUSSIAN LADIES! as you so emphatically claim. Russia is a big mofo country, mate. Do the numbers in a calm, cold calculating an UNemotional manner. The proof is in the pudding. Only 15-20% of the population live in the 'socials' cities. And even in the wildest off chance that the operators managed to saturate their markets (which they do not) and attract 100% of the local women, there would still be FIVE women elsewhere in Russia for every woman willing to attend that one social you decided to go to. It's very easy to calculate fairly accurately what proportion of real available women attend these socials. Do a simple percentage estimate of attendees to local residents, add a few points for outoftowners, then do the same for the general population of the entire country. Since the social operators also advertise to and recruit from among women who have never expressed interest in foreign men using the whole population numbers, not just the percentage of women seeking foreigners is valid. I suspect at least a 1,000-1 ratio in favor of women available outside the socials. I only corresponded, chatted or talked to one women from the big russian cities that I thought would be a good match for me. The vast majority of them went under the 'big city attitude' file and promptly sent to the recycle bin for someone else to put up with them. So my personal preference ratio shot up to more than 10,000 - 1 in favor of women outside the socials areas. When it comes to individual confidence I make it a point to tip my hat off to those who blaze their own path over those who run with the pack. Once again, cost comparison is irrelevant. Value for what you pay is what matters. If you do not get the value you seek or expect, you pay too much. Period. QC listed the only reasons why I would have considered attending any of the socials. Back up plan. That's all. But since the vast majority of really available women are in smaller cities, agency catalogues and arranged dates are more the realities of what my back up plan would have consisted of. Jmo, There is no need to get frustrated. I'm happy that is works for you, if it does. toad jmoluv Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/20/2005 12:05:25 PM   Jet , As i stated here earlier . I indeed asked the women at the European Connections social about e-mailing versus social and the two or three i asked felt the men who were made the journey were more sincere than those just writing . If any one woman thought they would never attend a social again is has to be for the very reason you just stated that there were too many women and not enough men. I actually felt bad because there were many beautuful eligible women sitting there with their friends or alone and no one was taliking to them simply because of the terrible ratio . If i was a woman and attended and i was not getting a chance to meet a man i would not go again either. Quite simple. Toad , to answer your question earlier . Yes i did indeed have a relationship for over one year with my interpretor with several visits and made friends from that social who i have kept in touch with. Nothing can match the initial introduction and eye contact . I dont think i could have decided just after one visit she was the one or with anyone . I had to do some dancing and make a few trips after to let my conscious be my guide. Things had to surface and i gave it time . This is just me . I simply did not feel we were compatible for marriage . As you say , she did not meet my specs for marriage. But yes i have launched a different approach as i said i would. I have better replys these days with a few who are consistent in their writing . I have been using some of your criteria for them to answer to. Actually they like the directness about it.Most, but not all. It eliminates the gray areas and cuts the chase to find your woman . Thanks. Socials to me are just as productive . So i can only use the few tools that are available which aren`t too many. But i do indeed have a few sweeties indeed just in e-mailing that are quite cooperative. Dale E Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/20/2005 1:05:59 PM   JMO- I have never been to a social and never will only because I have already found someone. But, I myself have never thought badly about them at all. I think that most of the negativity has been brought on by the popularity of the socials. It seems that they are now represented as a place to meet hundreds of desperate women in a party atmosphere. Unfortunately that will attract more men but not necessarily the men with the good intentions. I remember awhile back you (or someone else) talking about going to, a social that was strictly business and no alcohol. It was about men and women hoping to find their one and only. It's too bad that is not the way it seems to be heading anymore. The more popular these socials become, the less they are held for their original purpose. They may not be a meatmarket yet but wait until everyone knows about them. (The views and opinions expressed represent Dale's and are not necessarily representive of the views and opinions of Fiance.com) SoccerDad Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/20/2005 1:10:24 PM   I can understand needing the face to face interaction to deepen the love that you are developing through the letters. But what changes so much in the face to face interaction that would make you realize that the person you have been building a relationship with through letters is really not meant for you at all. Is it that the ladies are not telling you everything? I remember the story about the psycho lady but I would hope that would be the exception to the rule. What I am really interested in finding out about are what are the major surprises that you get when you finally meet the lady. Are there any ways to uncover them up front before spending the travel money so that when you finally pay for the trip your odds of success are closer to the 90% chance of success rather than what seems to be much lower. For various reasons I need to make the one or two trips that I can make count and I need to make the odds of success when I get there as close to 100% as I can possibly get. jmoluv Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/20/2005 1:26:05 PM   Dale , I appreciate your comment and i wish i was in your shoes now and also Nas`s Jet`s and Toad`s and all the others who have found their ladies. Yes , European Connections are the founder`s of this industry and from Atlanta, Ga.That is why i chose them . It was a very well lighted occasion in a beautiful banquet room with traditional light music , very formal with snacks and refreshments and alchohol was prohibited. It reminded me of a dry wedding . The woman almost all dressed very office like with no provocotive clothing . They were not rubbernecking and winking.It was a most serious occasion and well mannered and well chaperoned.AFA is suppose to be very comparable also . It is a shame that the women outnumber the men. As Jet said these women go through great preparations to be there unless they are local.Long train rides and saving money for an apartment and missing work to meet you. Give them some credit men. It was very formal , in fact maybe a little too formal for me.The women that are invited to attend by European Connections are the women on their website and are registered by them . Any hanky panky and they are removed . I dont see how the hooker paranoia fits into their program .Guys , Fiance.com is not the only agency that you can write to women in case you did not know. European Connections know all their woman personally .If they try to scam you they are removed . What more do you want ? jmoluv Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/20/2005 1:28:54 PM   Actually there was not even a bar in the room.It was all nice tables with linens and flower arrangements . With windows facing the city skyline. jmoluv Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/20/2005 1:35:07 PM   Toad , In your comment about Spirit`s comment Even though i reguard most of his writings in good light, that particular post of Spirit`s does not hold water with me because he simply is speculating how he thinks it might be . He wasn`t there but i was. jetmba. Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/20/2005 1:56:59 PM   Toad: If you are going to use a puely statisticl analysis, it is true that there are MILLIONS of Russian women - actually probably around ONE HUNDRED MILLION - in Russia and other FSU countries ( the number who are within the reasonable age group and single whould, of course reduce that number). Would it satisfy your argument, threfore, if we had a significant percentage of these women...say TEN MILLION at the Socials? It might be a little hard to find the proper sized banquet hall to hold the Social. Its my desire, therefore, that they have a reasonable number of women that represent the population of single and interested ladies ladies in the area - NOT neccessarily qualified by artificial means of literary aptitude. Writing letters doesn't give you a cross section. It gives you girls able (or desperate) enogh to try writing to a man in a language that they may not feel comfortable with. Some get listed on a whim. Others make it a business to see how soon and how much the guy will eventually send. (Not everyone IS wise enough to heed the advise not to send money until actually meeting). It opens the possibility that GUYS are actually doing the correspondence. (And I am reasonably sure that the women I met at the Socials were REALLY genotypical WOMEN.) It openjs the possibility that she may be an EXCELLENT letter writer (or having someone else do it for her) but a LOUSY person in the flesh. (One guy at the social - had made arrangements to MEET a girl in Odessa that he had been writing to and sending money to. She was supposed to be 23 years old , but he said she had the maturity of a 12 year old. It was then revealed it was actually her MOTHER who had been writing the wonderful letters.) I could go on. There are a MILLION possible problems that could crop up when you write letters. There are certainly possible problems with Socials as well, of course, but I bet I could counter every possible pratfall involved with Socials with TWO invoved with writing letters. The two biggest problems with Socials? Some guys HAVE dubiously used them as sex tours. And many ladies attend with high hopes only to be humiliated by not even being spoken to. (My lady and I had a discussion on this very isue recently, by the way, about guys just going to sleep with as many 18 and 19 year old girls as they could in ten days. I personally know of a guy who managed at least six, - I met them - all cute and blonde. My ladiy's view was that that was alright as long as the guy was honest and ADMITTED he was there for just sex. She said that if the guy was honest and gave the girls something for their services - it was their business. Its the guys who go there and AREN'T honest that that uis their intent that make it bad for the rest of us.) Bottom line - to each his own. I don't like writing letters and see very little about it as a way to qualify my prospective mate. Therefore if I find myself in the sitution where I am looking again - I will certainly attend a Social. But to each his own. jetmba. Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/20/2005 2:01:44 PM   My experience was the same as jmoluv. There wasn't even a bar in the room. Tiny glasses of champaign were available but it would have been next to impossible to get enough of these to have any effect on anyone. I've DONE job inteviews from both sides (emplyer and employee) and beleive me these were an awful lot like those. wtrav02 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 6/20/2005 2:44:55 PM   That was funny and a good point about Emily Dickenson::)) I was never afraid of socials(!), in fact considered one in the very beginning and even watched the thirty minute video AFA sent me. It just didn't fit with my personality for the very reasons Toad lined out, ie. "blaze your own path". I like to do things on my own, no need to have someone else bring me 200 women in a room. Furthermore, I would never consider a serious relationship with a girl who has gone to one of these period. If she thinks so low of herself to accept this kind of humiliation, she's not good enough for me. That's my mindset not necessarily right for others. Point well taken about being treated as a celebrity jet:) though why would you like this? see what happened to Tom Cruise boy during the weekend? Your Reply: Your name:   New Registration Password:   Forgot password?   refresh Code:   Russian brides > Main Forum > Sex views of Russian Women
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