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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > Speaking the Language - Is it Really Necessary? Author Post beemer18 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/24/2007 7:59:25 PM   Ohio...I would like to congratulate you on finding your girl. It is rare to find her on first try(hope I am right). There was something that caught my attention that I would like to point out to you. When you sent gifts for your girl's daughter and your girl was pissed. I was brought up that when someone offers you a gift, accept it gracefully and if you are uncomfortable let then know about any future gifts. My grandfather was a giver, he would always offer things to us. My father told us to always accept his offerings because it made HIM feel better. I know you shouldn't accept some things( especially expensive things) if you don't know person well but to be upset about someone trying to be nice really disturbed me. I hope that was ironed out in beginning. Maybe it is part of culture, although I have not met many girls even close to yours. You always want girl to be sincere but she was to an extreme. I didn't think the $300 was a good idea, gifts are one thing but money tends to make it look like being bought. I hope I have not offended you, I do hope things go great for you and your girl. Good Luck!! OhioAl Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/24/2007 9:40:02 PM   Hi Beemer, After Tatiana and I talked about the gifts for her 6 year old daughter (by the way they were not extravagent - some Cleveland Browns outfits and a stuffed bear) I came to find out that she was more embarrassed than pissed. When she divorced her husband, he simply took off and left her and her daughter to fend for themselves. Not on once of support at all. Tatiana pulled herself up by the bootstraps, got a job and went about supporting herself and her daughter. By necessity, she became self reliant and somehow along the way she assumed that because I sent her daughter some birthday gifts I was stating that she was unable to take care of her daughter. We talked it through and we're the better for it because she relaxed and understood that the only meaning behind the gifts were that I was thinking of her daughter on her birthday. The one thing that I've found with Tatiana is her sense of pride. I visited her apartment while I was in Chisinau. She doesn't have a lot of material things, but what she does have is clean and orderly beyond belief. I sincerely think that I could eat off of her floor - except she'd be mad at the crumbs :) As for the cash that I gave her... Honestly - Moldovan Lei aren't good anywhere other than Moldova and you aren't allowed to leave the country with them in any event. There was no malice on my part and she knew that. The way that I saw it, Tatiana would have some expenses arising from preparing for the K-1 visa paperwork. Her birth certificate needed translation, she'd have to travel to Bucharest for her physical and embassy interview, so on and so fourth. Also, I forgot to mention in my initial posting that she took off 5 days from work to be with me constantly (I was there for 10 days but she only had 1 week of vacation). I've heard of situations where the woman worked during the time that her boyfriend came to visit and they only had the opportunity to see one another in the evenings or on the weekend. So, in essence she lost a week's worth of wages during the time that I was there. The other issue is that I had pretty well planned on having the expense of her and I dining out for 2 or 3 meals a day for the entire trip and as I stated in my earlier post - she insisted that we go food shopping and ate at the apartment except for 2 nights (one of which was the night I proposed). I know that there will be other things that she and I will disagree about, but I think that could be said for any new marriage, American, Russian or Martian. What encourages me the most about Tatiana is that when we do have misunderstandings, they are minor and she is willing to sit down and talk about it. There are cultural differences between us, but our similarities in the way we view life and family far outweigh any differences. Please feel free to give more opinions, insight, advice, etc... Also, if anyone is comtemplating going to visit their women, feel free to pick my brain - I'll be happy to help if at all possible. Al Adman Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/24/2007 11:37:54 PM   Nice going Al It sounds like you found a good woman. Does she have any sisters ? Its good to hear a few success stories Best of luck gladiatorUK Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/25/2007 12:31:36 AM   apal: no-one least of all me is bad mouthing any country here.....viva rattled my cage by generalising those who have had success in the FSU,and I take exception to that,seein as he knows absolutely nothing about me as a person. If people want to find love,sex,whatever in any country they choose I haven't got a problem with that. However......those that make sweeping statements of the type like viva did will get both barrels. Seems like common sense is in short supply these days........(and no Apal that is not aimed at you).....:)) vivalasvegas Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/25/2007 7:38:18 AM   Gladiator.... i tell you where it came from... it came from months of dealing with Nas... Now he has gone just too far by throwing about accusations. He is waaaay too defensive. Look... I have stayed on this thread. This thread BELONGS on this forum. I do not go about splashing every thread. Everyone here agrees there are good fish everywhere. OhioAl just may have just got one, but noone can deny the dozens of failures throughout the last 2 years. How many have made it?? You, Nas.. maybe a couple others. Horror stories to this degree do not exist in other countries. Nas you point to you experiences in olongapo, i know EXACTLY what was going on while you were there and understand a little bit why you have the attitudes you do about the place. Things were out of hand back then. I just see it as a invalid excuse, one guy from my tour group got dashed at the airport by his fiance. During the my ukraine tour, one tourist was beaten badly. There was more then one occasion of violence in some nightclub. I stand by my assertions... the FSU is a terrible place to seek a bride. I good woman is a good woman, no matter where she comes from. We are all well aware of the pitfalls of the FSU, they are well documented on this thread. So i ask you all of you once again.... Why shoud i swim about the sewers, looking for the diamond in the FSU, when they are growing on trees in latin america AND asia??? Why shud i deal with the BS of the FSU... )funky agencies, hoards of scammers, a huge language barrier, overwhelming expenses, and its dangerous) when i can just get off a plane in Peru and start talking to girls. I think deep down, you know im right, GladUK, OhioAl, and Nas are damn lucky to find what they got. The FSU is not the IMPOSSIBLE quest, it is just IMPROBABLE. nasfan6 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/25/2007 9:52:04 AM   Viva, those were your own words is a post from some time ago. I can't be stooping low using your own words. Be that as it may, you two guys got kicked to the curb, You and Izzi, both together come in and write diatribes of certain doom and failure, when it was you that failed so you suggest misery loves company? Men of small minds, like you two, who could not succeed will go out of your way to promote failure for those here who earnestly look for something better in life. Contrary, this is not an international dating forum. This is a forum specific to finding a woman from the FSU. Something neither of you two could accomplish. As far as Rome is burning, that's hardly the case, but you two clowns would destroy any guys opportunity to even attempt. You both thought with your arrogance that finding a woman in the FSU was going to be like shooting fish in a barrel. I'm far from angry, harsh, but it is my God given right to be judgmental, only ones of liberal thought who think they are above it all condemn judgementalism. The Elitist breeds, who with contempt attack others who hold them to their own words. I will hold Jetmba and Skiired as two perfect examples, who fell down the first time, but didn't come in here like you two losers and blame the culture,the country and the women for their failures. Yes they did act like men, brushed themselves off and had the integrity and character to go at it again. One has succeeded the second is with all my respect and hope is going to make it. Not once did they come in and blame anyone for what happened to them. For Izi, the truth is rather rude and obnoxious sometimes isn't Steve? Especially when it's tossed back in your lap. All the conditions you wanted to put on the women you met, you were not willing to put on yourself. You're a class envy person, and it's always about money with you. If someones got more, you're angry and envious. I love the comment you made, the only reason we made it is because we have money. Well my judgmental envious fool. If I had the money that some here who have succeeded I would burn mine to lite my fireplace in the winter. It doesn't take money to succeed, it takes a desire to succeed, and desire takes hard work, passion and common sense, which neither of you exhibit in any form whatsoever. By the way Viva should I go back and research your comment, If I'm wrong about you saying you were as sex tourist, I will apologize in this forum. One thing I do have is an excellent memory. What do I get in return for being correct? I don't usually run off at the mouth unless I'm pretty damn sure of what I'm talking about. A couple of my favorite people who I have read extensively about, were at times the most hated people of their times, because of what they said and how honest they were about it. Woefully so neither you or Izi are not even remotely intellectually honest at all, makes me wonder about other things as well. Well it doesn't really make me wonder at all. gladiatorUK Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/25/2007 12:11:38 PM   Viva: can't deny I was lucky finding my wife,but it's not all about luck.I first started visiting the FSU way back in 2001,and if anything that was the time I needed a little luck.Information on the net was sparse to say the least and even though I thought I'd done my homework,it was a rude awakening when I found out that wasn't the case. I visited Ukraine several times and Belarus also before my "luck" came good.Was I disappointed with my unsuccessful trips??......you bet I was.I made mistakes,but I learnt from them.That is usually how life works my friend.I didn't suddenly decide the FSU was a cesspit,and try to rubbish all and sundry.As Nas has pointed out repeatedly.....determination and a desire to succeed is the most important thing.Anyone can fail....thats the easiest thing in the world,acheiving a goal is infinitely more difficult.That holds true for just about anywhere in the world you choose to go. I'll tell you the way I see it.......finding a wife in the FSU isn't easy,whenever you deal with clever and articulte women that will always be so,but the rewards are well worth the effort.In saying that I'm pretty damn sure there will be women like that in Latin America,Asia,just about anywhere you care to name.The difference is in the effort required.I don't expect you to be nodding in agreement,just understanding.This is a forum about FSU dating,NOT Asia,NOT South America...just the FSU. A forum full of yes men and success would be very dull indeed and certainly of little help to those starting out on this journey.Debate is what it's about.......the success and the failures.......the learning process,something we all have to do throughout our lives.Regardless of past animosities don't you think it's irresponsible to post such a one sided view? It's not about who can shout the loudest or the longest (take a bow here Martin)it's about weighing up the pros and the cons.Those who do seldom make a fool of themselves with rash judgements.Learn by your mistakes Viva,you will find success that much sooner when you do. I truly hope you and Izi find what you are looking for,you have made your choice,but in condemning the FSU route as you do shows a remarkable lack of insight. nasfan6 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/25/2007 2:18:46 PM   Sewers of FSU? got to love it. What arrogance, good thing one guy only got beaten, I remember driving back in the barrio seeing a marine with his throat cut! Yep nice sewer. It's not much better there now. I have a buddy who just retired out of NIS in Manila and he told me with the muslim impact in the PI now, it's almost as dangerours as anywhere else. Bottom Line Viva, you condemn a whole country, culture based on on trip and one trip only. Not only have I visited the PI many times I lived among the locals and had to deal with their crap every day. Ripping off the yanks daily, talk about scams. Dozens of failures, I can give dozens of success stories here. No problem pal, I will not allow guys like you and Izi condemn a culture and a race by your remote experiences and then tell me who great Thailand and PI is and I've interacted in both societys. Like I say, save that pumping the dog routine for the newbies. You failed, you should just walk away and choose another route, but your own hatred for these girls blind you both, because you were not clever enough or too arrogant to understand their lives and society. Pardon me while I got put out the fire in Rome. You both are a joke. ben2006 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/25/2007 2:58:32 PM   Nasfan let these guys be. I don't want to convince them the FSU is not all that bad and that guys can have success there. Whats the point? Better not to encourage them to go back, they will only disapoint girls there and potentially ruin things for other guys. I think most people who read there posts can tell they they are either angry that they did not have success or they are trying to seek approval for going to Thailand or PI instead, why else come here and post. anothermug Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/25/2007 4:09:42 PM   The unscrupulous western man can and does succeed in Ukraine. Nice guys finish last here just as anywhere else. But in his own Western country a nice guy is not so likely to get lied to and scammed by all and sundry. So honesty and integrity - well I will stick with mine and may find a good woman here. More likely I will return to my own western country and settle for a woman near own age and very likely the same financial income and capital. Or try some realistic trading in Thailand. Why not? Everybody knows that the WM in Ukraine is trying to get more for his dollar, and most Westward bound females are loaning their body to the highest bidder - until she gets her green card. Actually, most guys don’t know that is the females plan. The reason is that almost no man would marry a woman he knew was lying to him and scamming him. That is why she wants it all now, not next year, new teeth, glasses, driving license, operations, clothes, material goods, car, travel, mother visiting west, all at hubbies expense, god knows what. She will not work - traditional values. She will not clean his house or work in his garden because she is bone lazy. But both sides pretend it is all true love. Hogwash! I think Izi is on the money and vivalasvegas is playing a straight hand. Wvwv hit a home run also. Here is a valuable tip. Win-win is an unknown concept here in Ukraine. Win-lose is the only preferred outcome, and you are the one who is going to lose. I think Ukrainians deep down prefer lose-lose. That is why so many UW wreck their marriage to the first man that has ever been kind to them. One thing that makes me sad is the realisation that the nice things my UW’s family said to me were most likely lies. I mean at my birthday for example. I have never heard such sincere good wishes anywhere, which really tug at the heart strings - yet the sad thing is it is almost certainly fake. What a bitter shattering of dreams and illusions. I always suspected the woman I married was a gold digger, but I trusted her mother and brother by and large. I still often regret ending my marriage. Had I kept her (without prenup) it would have cost me an arm and both legs and probably my house. Unless you are very rich, or handsome charming and young, marrying a very attractive young Ukrainian woman and taking her to your country will be a failure. You will lose your friends, family and a lot of money. You will be left with bitter sweet memories and not much else. For myself, there was always as much bad times as good times with her. Like many UW, she was a troubled person. Many Ukrainian women have been abused as children. The whole culture leans towards abuse which is tolerated by the authorities, which also abuses young people such as army conscripts - I.e. most young males. These males learn there to abuse others such as females. If they did not already learn it at home. Yet Ukraine is, or was, a matriarchal society. So a lot of guys turn to booze. Most guys abandon their wives soon after the first child is born. Is it because the men are lazy bums, or because Ukrainian women are sweet, sexy, beautiful, controlling, dominating and crazy? Charles Darwin could write ten books here. Makes Galapagos look rather dull. apal1 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/25/2007 11:27:57 PM   Good post mug -- agreed strongly with it. Yet, personally? I am going ahead with trying my best to find just one rose petal in the shard's of broken glass that has become the modern, beautiful, corrupt, immoral girls of the FSU. I just want to find that diamond in a rough, I have a feeling she is out there still. Or not.. just curious... apal1 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/25/2007 11:45:14 PM   Hi Ohio -- wondering what your 'honest' opinions on the city were. And what stage of the marriage agency process are you in currently? Did you bend down on one knee and place the ring on the finger of her 'right' hand, or the left? Curious cultural difference on this one issue... I have heard Russian girls place their wedding finger on the right hand, is this true? What would you have done differently or improved upon if given the moment to go back in time? izifaddag Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/26/2007 2:22:28 AM   Before you guys (the ones that are reading and not posting) make any decisions and spend any money do yourself a favor. Examine the posts in this thread. Who carries more weight? The shrill, angry, egotistical posts from Nasfan? OR The balanced polite posts of those that are opposed to the FSU? Nobody has insulted or called Nasfan a liar. He is very entitled to his opinion and you will not hear me saying he is either wrong or not entitled to have a different position. However, he apparently cannot stand anybody being on the other side. You can say anything you want so long as you agree with me is his motto. Remember that earlier on in this thread I said that everybody involved in this is just a little left of center :)) A truly childish approach. None of this is the end of the world. It is just different views at work. It is what makes the world go around. It is only a forum. Virtual words forgotten soon after they are read. Why become so upset? I don't know. Unless......... None of us that are opposed, Mike00, Anothermug, Viva, QC, myself or anybody else (and there have been many over the years) has said anything derogatory about him or done anything except wish him well in his marriage. Good luck to the man and his lovely wife. Strange that he would be such an attacker. So vehemently wild about anybody who offers a different view. What do you make of that??? Insecure? Something else? I don't know but consider all this before you buy a plane ticket. Be careful who gives you advice. A balanced person or an angry so called success story. MartinUK was a very good example. Seemed good on the surface but underneath a man who has problems. What, I don't know. I am not a professional but definitely problems. I try to stay away from those that revel in conflict. Unfortunately they abound. YOU be the judge and be careful. And now I really must stay away from this place for a while. It is pointless me being here (as it is Nasfan also) and apparently Nasfan doesn't like me in HIS forum. I have other things to do and this has shrunk from what it once was for me(a large part of my life) to just idle curiosity. I wish everyone well and whether you decide to travel to the FSU or not I hope success finds you. izifaddag Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/26/2007 2:24:23 AM   Oh by the way. Skired is ANYTHING but a success story. I wonder if she is still calling her boyfriend back in St Petersburg. The one with the greencard. izifaddag Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/26/2007 2:30:51 AM   One last thing. Viva, How is that guy doing, the one that ran TXUkraine. You know, the one that was married to the beautiful Ukrainian wife and was doing business with Kherson Pearls etc? Would be curious about that overweight guy too, the one who's lady disappeared as she was changing interconnecting flights in the USA. Whatever happened to him? I heard he had plenty of money. Did he go back for another one? anothermug Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/26/2007 2:58:23 AM   Apal, I have not given up either and have spent five months this year in Ukraine already, with at least three more to go. I don’t give up easily. I wasted a lot of time by meeting Elena’s models females in Kiev - 90% were pro daters. I advise go straight to a smaller city and settle in. Just talk to girls in the streets, shops and markets. Females away from Kiev are mostly friendly and often curious to meet a foreigner. Many have plans to work in Europe - almost none have thought of trapping a husband and using him as a visa mule. That means most girls in Ukraine actually have high principles, but the agency girls are another matter. Yes one gets a few knock backs and haughty glares from girls in the street, and even outright laughter, but I figure they are the ones losing out. Not many scammers work all day in the market or a shop for $10 a day. A scammer gets that in five minutes from a western fool. It is amazing though, if you are divorced and desperate and trust marriage agencies you will find a wife in a matter of a few weeks in Kiev or other big city. Look out though, she has her own agenda. Booze is incredibly cheap here in Ukraine and a long string of disappointments with prospective girlfriends, and pub type socializing seems to lead to increased consumption of the foaming substance. In the West I almost never go out drinking. No wonder I am mostly alone there. Might take back my new tolerance for alcohol with me. Good for leaning on a bar in Thailand too I guess. Plenty of western guys there to get advice from also. Not so many here, especially in a small city. nasfan6 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/26/2007 7:40:34 AM   nless your rich or extremely handsome and charming only then you will succeede in Ukraine. Maybe if your chasing someone 20 years your junior. If you're looking for a sincere woman and I will use only myself as an example, close to my age, she is more looking for honesty, fidelity and an earnest attitude towards hard work. Not being condescending to guys looking for younger women,though I think there are some extreme pitfalls to it, to each their own. Lying and scamming women? Plenty here in the states, I experienced it first hand. You can be with someone for almost 20 years and not really know what motivates them to do what they do. What I lost was more expensive in my divorce, than what my current wife would ever take from me. That's why all this time, if you read in my past posts, I have been a vehement opponent to a prenup. If you have to protect your assests from a certain woman, why marry her in the first place, you're giving a pre existence to imminent failure before you start. Plus you are putting material things way ahead of what is most valued, at least in my life, the love, honesty and integrity of a great woman. I give kudos of my success (so far) because a marriage is a constant journey, not just a few processes, too many guys here. TimH, Gladiator, Dittus, Neon, Skiired, Jmoluv, DaleE, Jetmba and others whom I forgot over time who gave me direction in certain aspects of my search. Who laid out realistic expectations of the women they met, and produced insight into goldiggers and scammers. Without the denigration of the women who were less than honest about attaining a relationship. I took a piece from each and everyone of them and molded it into a way that my search and subsequent marriage would be fruitfull and painless in the best way possible. This took time to realize. The best advice starting I got from TimH, go back and spend two weeks reading this forum before you even decide to contact a single female here. My mailbox was getting filled with letters, but I did what I was advised to do. Why, Tim lived in England traveled many times to Eastern Europe, knew his way around. Kind of like me living in Indiana and tripping to California to see Navy buddies 3-4 times a year. In that two week time I had received about 80 letters after a couple of weeks of correspondence I had eliminated about 78 of them. With this advice from all the guys, I devised how I was going to search for a lady and made myself a promise I would not defer from this plan in anyway. I set some guidelines for myself that under no circumstances was I going to acquiesce in anyway. The main thrust to this journey was, this is going to be a one time venture and if I failed on my first trip, I would just pack it up and look at something else, I was also resigned to the fact that I might just remain single the rest of my life. Which also didn't bother me too much. Win or lose, it was up to me, to make correct judgements about the lady I was going to see, and I was going to damned sure she was all that I was looking for as my future partner. Not just jumping on a plane on a whim, to see if the next stone fox was going to be my future wife. Was language a huge necessity, not really, I knew if she was it, either two things would happen she would learn mine or I would learn her's with earnest. It worked out that she learned mine a hell of a lot better than I can speak hers. If it would have failed, I would have looked at what I did wrong. Not what she did wrong. My destiny is controlled by God and myself. If all the things I was looking for in a woman she met, and she would have no clue what my criteria was, so that took the opportunity for her to be deceitful off the table, I was going to see her and her only. Hell we all know there are scammers in the FSU, hell there are scammers in our everyday lives. I only made two promises to my wife, that I would work as hard as my body and my mental skills would provide me to give her a good life and two that I would sleep in her bed only as long as we were together. I was upfront with my financial existence and what my goals for our future would be. She wasn't coming here to sudsidize my income, she was coming to be my wife, so I had to make the arrangements for her coming, along with certain sacrifices to maintain a comfortable way of life for both of us, without introducing the pressures of jumping into a culture and workforce she hardly would understand. That's not accomplished in a short time. Now she's working, and working for herself, no time clocks no bosses, just her. She does it for her soul as she says. She has created a beautiful home for the both of us, all her ideas and many hours of her hard work along with mine, that is the manual labor. She has created her own credit profile here on her own. With my advice, not my money or through my bank. I promised I would give her opportunity, but no guarantees. Through the two years we corresponded and met on several occasions, I did inquire about how she fet towards financial responsibility. To this day she has not deviated one iota on what she told me. Through her difficulties living under the economic conditions that prevail through Ukraine, she knew how to be responsible with money, sure she wanted more in life, but not at the risk of damaging herself or us jointly. She likes to buy clothes and things for our house, that's her God given right, she earns it in various ways. Also she was very creative in her life creating revenue for herself when she was alone in Ukraine. She used to travel to Poland on frequent occasions to buy clothes to resell in Mariupol. This industrious attitude I admired in her. These are things I learned about her from her, and when I met her friends in Ukraine. Her friends are almost just like her in attitude in life, with the exception of one. I made the attempt to learn everything I could about her and her expectations and goals in life. D nasfan6 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/26/2007 7:41:33 AM   Daily letters and phone calls. Every day for over two years I was in constant communication with her. She quizzed me on many aspects of my life. Not once was discussed what my income was, because to her, she didn't understand it because living in my society was a vague to her as living on the moon. She questioned my relationships with my daughter, my friends, what I enjoyed as hobbys, my overall outlook on life. She's not controlling, but she has expections of me, which is a good thing. She has put in as much as I have to making our family succeed in all avenues. She has a subtle stubborn streak, which is good, two people who agree all the time, one is not necessary. When she feels she right she's sticks to her guns, not in a vindictive way, but she gets her point across in an intelligent way. She has given up more to be with me here, than I think I will ever be able to give back to her. It motivates the hell out of me daily. Our cultural differences makes for an interesting education for me daily and takes away the mundane day to day life that bogs down many couples here in the states. She has a zest and drive for life that requires me to up my ante daily in respect to hard work. Yeah they like to do their nails and have nice clothes and act like a "woman!" In that light she still earns that. She is the epitome of what I was looking for a woman, who understood the gender differences and roles we play in them. She never bought into the feminist concept. She told me once the two worst thing America did to Ukraine was introduce feminism to them and kill them with McDonalds. I learned all these things about my wife even before I stepped foot on Ukrainian soil. I still remember to this day my first thoughts when I landed in Kiev. Have I lost my mind! Yeah I was nervous, but that's a good thing. I was more nervous about her attitude towards me when we first met, than I was about her. Now spending actual time together would prove to both of us whether we were going to work together. Needless to say it did. With that thought in mind, I am not blinded by the fact that we could potentially fail. Anything is possible in life. If it would, I'm not going to lay blame at her feet and her feet alone. Though our outlook is extremely positive, because of the hard work we both put in to learning each other as much as possible before we even decided on the K1. It wasn't until our third trip together that we decided to do it. She had a lot to think about and a lot to give up, more than I would give up. If she would have jumped at the first opportunity I would have been a little skeptical. She's a bit pragmatic in life. Kind of balances my nature to fly by the seat of my pants on occasions. Great journey, I have received the greatest gift from God with her in my life. Apal to answer your question, I put the engagement ring on her left hand, because an engagement ring is not a common practice in Ukraine and yes I got down on my knee. Here she wears them on her left hand. To the guys that helped me along the way thanks for everything and God bless you all for your help, to my detractors also thanks, because your failures, taught me also what it takes to succeed with a woman from the FSU. See there is a flipside to every coin. To the guys who didn't succeed and tried agian to succeed and those who didn't and did not condemn a whole country of women, you have my ultimate respect. This isn't about who's view should be adhered to, it's about character, character defined. It's about guys who come in here to denigrate women with every adjective known to man, then portray some other countries merits and values above the women in the FSU. To broadbrush them the way some of you guys do is an insult to every guy who is married to a lady from the FSU and makes it work everyday. It was your own insincerity that created your downfall. If you don't think you were insincere, just look at your negative posts about the women now. That's not the woman I'm married to, and surely it's not the women that associated with my wife during her life. I learned a long time ago in competitive athletics, by failing to prepare you are preparing to fail. Failure wasn't some one elses fault it was ours for not preparing and sacrificing and giving everything we had to suceed. Just showing up doesn't count. apal1 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/26/2007 12:18:47 PM   Thanks Nas -- appreciate the indepth reflection. With the increased popularity of these marriage agency sites in FSU, guys have to be aware that not all girls are going to be morally-sound like the one you got Nas. I think you know this. I am sure you do. Age doesn't necessarily factor into the equation on determining immoral women - regardless of whatever anyone's opinion of her country. Upbringing, good sound values, humility and modesty are things that can be completely missing, ignored or basically corrupted in any person, regardless. My warnings have been to naive guys who think the process is easy. Who think these girls are all sincere in what they write. Nas, your approach worked for you. Three visits over two years? I don't think it would work for me, but it did for you. I know pretty well if I could see myself with a woman and feel her attitude would be compatible with mine in a much shorter time. Any longer, and to me I would think I was trying to convince myself. Yet, its more pragmatic and cautious to extend the entire relationship to a more longer time period - as was done in your case. To each their own... not knocking it at all. I really do think that the entire marriage agency system leads a girl to become corrupted if she goes into it without serious intentions or sees herself trying everything possible to marry for money. No Prenup? Would never in my life see this happening with myself after what type of sociopath I encountered on my first trip out. This girl accused me of rape at the one time she was in my apartment during an early afternoon visit -- when an agency translator was present. Psychotic, manipulators with the eyes of an angel -- ready to pounce the moment you insult them. beemer18 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 8/26/2007 12:50:20 PM   Just wanted to answer to the guys above about blaming the country and the girls in Ukraine for the 'scamming' going on there. It is a learned behavior, they weren't born that way. Guess who nutured that experience....it si the idiot guys from the west that have tried to buy their way into a girls heart. Also, I am sure there are some girls that have some guilt. Just because someone has not succeeded at something doesn't mean no one will. It is nice to hear experiences from both the positive and the 'negative' but you have to remember we are all individuals and make different decisions. Let ME decide whether I want to go to FSU country or not and not tell me. I would love to hear anybodys experiences, that is healthy. If a guy strikes out in FSU, maybe it is not for HIM. I don't know the specifics but there are many variables on why.... personality, expectations, looks, wallet, urgency, intelligence, beer belly, one-foot-in-grave (:)) many others.....it all comes down to.... being at the right place at the right time, period!! Your Reply: Your name:   New Registration Password:   Forgot password?   refresh Code:   Russian brides > Main Forum > Speaking the Language - Is it Really Necessary?
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