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	Create New Topic   My Posts   My forum buddies   Invite friends   Private messages Russian brides > Main Forum > Protesters update Author Post nasfan6 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/22/2005 10:50:20 AM   Shipa Any of us with intelligence do not watch CNN! As for Americans wanting everyone to speak english. That is not the case. If that was true I wouldn't have spent time learning to speak Russian, the reason I did was for the respect of my lady. Though you should learn to speak the language of the country you live in. This is a big problem in the states. If I moved to Russia or Ukraine I don't expect them to speak english, it's not their native tongue. I think you have a few misconceptions of American men. I'm glad to see you put the AK47 away. General Kalishnikov has been a subject of my study. He created the most copied military weapon of this century and he did it for the love of his country. Shipa Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/23/2005 6:00:32 PM   To nasfan6 Good evening,thank your for a reply. Here in Russia we can watch CNN, but you need to pay for a cable TV, so I'm watching BBC and Euronews few times a week (that is free, but starts late). BBC and Euronews are going in Russian, well, it is not to much problem for me to understand in Enlish too, but it gives a chance to other people to get some other opinions, different from local, if they want that. Oh, you took too seriously my reaction (or overreaction) about AK. Ok, everyone leanrs how to use it when you are at school, as well as all girls learn a housekeeping too. To treate or to defend a family - is not it a duty of each adult? Anyhow - general Kalashnikov is still alive, he is about 97 or 98, I,m not sure. I was talking that way bacause, after the "Orange Revolution",I feel some danger for my family, for my peace and my world. I do not trust any well-paid revolutions at all, I'm too sceptic for that. Noone can "deliver" that as if it is a pizza or a fast-food. I feel that a democracy ia as a baby, it needs some period of time (different for each country) to grow up, we can not expect that a new-born becomes a teenager in a couple days. When I asked my daughter, who is 19 years old and a student of the 3 grade at the University, about her opinion, she said that some our local "democrates" were at their Univ. telling students about free tickets to Kiev if they would go there. But their group, after some discission, decided that they can not respect themselves if their political philosophy and attitude is paid this or that way. So if that would trust everything that is was going in Kiev, then they would spend their oun money, their scholarships, to go. But, because that was a BIG lie, it is better to stay at home, to get exams and think about a future profession - a social psychology, to be as much useful here, at home, in a future, as they can. Well, I need to finish, that is late, so - good night, or have a nice day. Shipa nasfan6 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/23/2005 10:29:55 PM   Shipa Thanks for your input, my lady is from Mariupol and she is not a friend of the orange revolution at all. It is interesting to hear your viewpoint on this. I think many here in the west get spoonfed their news from the like of CNN, ABC and etc. Nothing like that was reported that Yuschenkos party paid for college kids to demonstrate in favor of his party. It is really interesting to hear from someone that actually lives there. Sometimes things are not as they appear. I also agree with your principle in the growth of democracy. It is a point of irritation to me here in the states. We could have done more to help nuture democracy in the former FSU, but we had weak leadership to address this issue. You can't think that a country which has been under an oppresive government can over night embrace democracy without some help and guidance. We did nothing to grow the seed of freedom and this is something that drives me crazy. As for defending your family I am in total agreement. Being a life member of the NRA and the freedom of the second amendment of my constitution, I believe in the right to bear arms and defend one's property and life. Best Wishes Mike Shipa Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/24/2005 6:35:41 AM   Dear Mike, my congratulations baout your lady from the East Ukrain. But you need to remember and to understand that women from our countries (as well as men) are much more "a community-family-mind-and-oriented" then people in the States. Here a word "an individualist" has a negative meaning, it means a persone who puts himself above other people and more equal to term ' a selfish man or an egoist". Our understanding of a social female role is (if we are still talking in a military terms) is provide a "strong support and a defended back or rear", so your man and your children would be successful people. For sure that can be different in each family, and noone even will try to get a female right to work if she wants or need, but that is a part of our own position and upbringing'. I was in the States many times, starting fron 1995, and spent a prety long time there, not as a tourist only, but meeting many people, traveling and making good friends. But so many times I had to answer such questions (especially from your local feminists, whome I do not like too much) - why Russian women do not have a right or do not want to serve in the army. First of all I even can not imagine me, my sister, my girlfriends or my daughter in a uniform with an arms in our hands, second - we have more women in our army, but they are not soldiers, but civilian staff (medical, technical, communications, secretaries, etc.), third - during WWII - we had 2 mln women served in the real fighting army, nothing is working well for them. They feel that we do not uderstand what does it mean to have the same rights with men. But that IS our right not to have an absolutely the same rights (I'm not talking about costitutional civilian social rights - to get an education, to vote and be be electied etc). So I found one argument - if all women are killed, even if there are a 100 men - she, probably will have a nice rest of her life, but it will be the end of the whole country, but if we keep 1 invalid man only, but a 100 women - a country will have a future. So women are much more important for the whole society, no any doubts! And this tricky argument works! (my hursband always is talking something like hi-hi-hi and ha-ha-ha). Well, it was a joke (somepart). Coming back to the orange Rev. - who can explain that situation - an election points were closed at 8 p.m, and they need to account voices, sign documents, send them up and so on, but at that time " revolutionaries" already had a nice stage with huge plasma screens (not the most cheap stuff), and Ushenko named himself as winner at 1 (!) a.m the same night. What is an alternative - or I win or they lie. Can you imagine your elections going this way? I can not, during a last elections the whole country was waiting for 15 days the resaults from Florida, is not it? Well, I need to go to get my passport with my visas, because I'm leaving to travel a little bit untill May, but I will send more interesting info when I'll be back home tonight. And ask your lady - is it a lot or not - to be paid 50 grivnas per day to stay on Maidan (+ free food and drinks). And see what she will answer you. So, have a nice day and talk to you tonight. Shipa Worldtraveller Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/24/2005 8:15:40 AM   Shipa, don´t take me wrong. But I am completely sure (and it was broadcasted in several newsagencies), that similar offers have been given to workers in east Ukraina for coming to Kiev and demonstrating against the socalled Orange Revolution. Me personally do not believe in the complete honesty of Juschtschenko administration. But what can normal people in the west think about an acting government, which tries to "miscredit" their opponents with serving them poison? This is kutchma´s and Janukovich´s understanding of democracy and free elections. WT Shipa Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/24/2005 12:48:48 PM   Dear WT ! (how nice that you are not WTO), Well, Im sure that the trip of Eastern workers to Kiev was paid (mostly by their tarde unions), but if you do not know - the East of Ukrain is producing 80% of the whole country budget. The Western part is almost agricultural one, so they are not so much busy in winter time. And, if you saw or your TV showed it, who came from the East - adult men 25-50 years old leaving their women and children at home. Why in the East all schools and colleges worked in a normal way, kids at school, students at the Universities - coming to the demonstration, as well as thei parents AFTER classes or work? Yanukovitch asked his supporters NOt to come to Kiev to be out of any possibility of a blood or a battle, and Uzhenko asked noone to leave the Maidan, Yanukovitch even talked to the minister of education during their Goverment meeting to take all kids out from the streets. I was horrified to see 8-10 old kids in the crowds, I uderstand that it was interesting for them - nonstop concert, meetings, flags - but as well, as normal mom, I understand that any crowd can be dangerous as the Hell! Especially when the whole city center is blocked by so many people and no any medical, police or fire services may come to help. So whom I will and must to respect more - a persone who is thinking about people, or a persone who is asking them to live in a mud and a cold? I did not watch any western TV except Euronews, but here in Russia it was almost a day-round reports from the Maidan and from Donetsk. It was so important here that my daugter told me that when she had been in a sport bar they did not show any sports except events in Ukrain. And I heard it by my own ears how Timoshenko informed people on the Maidan that Russian special troops are located around the capital, that tanks are coming from Donbass and so on, and so on... Then noone could find any avidence of that words, but who care?... And about "serving a poison". If you remember even his (Uzhenko) doctors could not confirm this info for a weeks. And, as I feel and I hope that you feel the same way, that a verdict - was he poisoned or not, if yes - who did it, how and when, that is up to the court, not for a engaged TV. It was an official speach of an US senator (forgot his name, sorry), that they spent $14 mln in Ukrain to support a democrasy (read Uzhenko), so if he is not winnig - it means to waste these money. Anyhow, before I will not get an OFFICIAL verdict of an ivestigation and court, let me take this info as a tittle-tattle. I may have another version - that he "poisoned" himself but carefully, just a little bit, to make a scandal and to get an martyr crown? I think that my variant is pretty interesting too. And as I know - if a special servicies, such as CIA, or KGB or whatever, really want to poison - they indeed do it. Shipa nasfan6 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/24/2005 9:57:42 PM   Shipa I am very family oriented and consider the woman as the cornerstone and foundation of the family. That is why I chose to look in Ukraine and have been very lucky to find the lady that I did. I totally agree with the female social role to a certain extent. Though I chose to believe that I want her to make the choices of her life the way she wants too. I admire very much the support the women of your area support their men, it is truly incredible. The most difficult thing I have had to learn from my lady is her appreciation of the things I do for her, even the simplest things she expresses her gratitude for and that is something you don't see much here in the west and it is very humbling. I also know the 50 grivnas a day is a tidy sum to be paid as a protester of the revolution. That adds up to 300USD a month and most people in Ukraine do not make that kind of money. I wish the people of Ukraine the best, but I do not think this will happen with Yuschenko, I think he will sell out to the EU and that will not be good for Ukraine. Godspeed on your trip Mike Shipa Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/25/2005 11:26:02 AM   To nasfan6 Dear Mike, First of all - my very best congratulations, (absolutely sincerely!), that you could find YOUR woman. That is the most important in the life - have a job, that is interesting for you, to live with a person of your heart and soul, and to have a hobby - sport, fishing, reading, you name. I know it pretty well, we are living together with my husband almoust 7 years and our life is not very typical, because we still live between 2 countries, flying back and force few times a year. It is not easy, but somehow we work it out. Me and my daughter do not want to leave Russia, I miss my country and Moscow terribly, as well as Lisa and my relatives, I miss my language and my friends. But I miss my husband too, so... We do not know how long it will be that way, think we will start to be togheter "nonstop" when he will finish his job at the University and will move to Moscow. But our relationship was not "cloudless" all the time. First two years I kept working, being a normal and succsessful "business lady", but after that my contract with a firm was over, so, (when I was in the US, my office manager called me and said: we have a new, higher position, but you must be back in a couple weeks, or we will hire somebody else). Oh, well, I had to make my mind. We were sitting with my husband together, thinking about our options, and he told me: that is YOUR choice, but I have my lectures next few months and will not be able to come to Moscow. And we knew that if I'm getting this position I'll not get any vacation before 11 months later. We decieded that I will stop my work, we made a decision togeher. That is how I became a "housewife". After 2 or 3 months I really became crazy to stay at home, it was SO unhappy, uncomfortable, everything was unusual - not to go to the office, not to fly to different Russian cities for negotiations, not to have my cup of coffee and a cigarette with my collegues discussing our families! (probably you know that Russians are talking about their families at an office, and talk about their job at home - a tradition). So I began to fell myself tired and sick from all of that. My husband saw that and tried to calm me down, to help me. But in one, not perfect day, I said; enought! I'm getting the first ticket to Moscow and I'm out! He answered; OK, that is your will, and left to the Univ. I sat down and thought: Hell, what I'm doing? He was so happy to come back home knowing that I wait for him, a house is clean, a fire in a fire-place is started, that we cook a dinner together and so on, and so on... I did not leave and spend next few months in California, untill the end of my visa. Then he came to Russia and we agreed to live this way - between two counties. We bought a nice flat in Moscow for our future, when I was at home I was busy enough to make a maintenance (oh, it will take a rest of our lifes! That is endless! but nice!) Last year he took his sabaticul (I'm not sure of the spelling of this word, sorry), came to Moscow for a whole year, and it was the first and the most happy year in 7 years. He learned to speak Russian, worked a lot, and much more effective and productive - because noone calls him, no any students around, so he could much more researchs here than at home. As an economist he can work on his computer with his analyses at home. It was great! Now we know that we ARE a family! Hey-hop! But - and I'm sure taht it is really important - that before we agreed to live togeher- we knew each other for two years. We did not meet thrugh internet, we just meet when he came to his business trip here and I was his project manager, so he was sure that I'm not looking for a western bachelor to move out from Russia, it does not matter where, but out. He meet me as a "business lady" and I was his "boss" during that lucky project (sometimes I'm joking about that). It was important. We both divorced in a past and both were very-very careful about a future. We both were afraid to make another mistake. But it did not happened. I must say that his ex-wife, (she is an American, and he is a New Zealander) helped me a lot. She did not do anything!!! None!,Did not work, no any children, they need some time, no any housekeeping, so he had to get money, to clean the house, buy food, cook etc. When I asked how she could spend so much free time for nothing and when he answered; drinking beer and reading novels - I could not belive! How I could work 8-10 hours a day, raise a child, take care about my flat, and found a time for all of that. I do not want to say - or I so great, look at me, but I did not have a choice, if not me - then - who? And only AFTER that talk I really began to UNDERSTAND why it was so much important for my dear to have "home - sweet home" (sorry for such an awful expession). It took almost 2 years to "train" him that he is not step out from a house if his dress is not ironed. Still I iron everything - shorts, teeshorts, and here is no any difference - are we out or at home. My family must be clean and accurate. If your were here or in Ukrain, it does not matter, so you know that a woman can be very successful in her career, but a social attitute, if her family is not looked-after, would be negotive. I know that many people will name this as a "relic" opinion, but everyone has a right to live a way that he wants, if that is not against a legislation, of course. That is a life that we choosed - he keeps a family, I keep a house, Lisa learns at the University. And that is fine for all of us. Well, I wanted to send you a short note with my very best wishes and congratulations, but because Lisa is not at home tonight (today is a St.Tatyana's Day - and official holiday of all Russian students, and Moscow State Univ. has its 250 anniversary, so here a lot of parties for them, fireworks, etc), so her computer is mine and I can write you a longer one. I hope that my trips would be OK, if Europe will c Shipa Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/25/2005 4:48:57 PM   to nasfan6 Dear Mike, It was really funny to write and send you my congratulations about your ukrain lady and than come back and read more messages from that forum and read about your guns. And about Russian guns, as well, as I do not understand why are you talking about AK47, probably you are talking about AK of the WWII? So, I specially find you some numbers from my daughter's school encyclopaedia, it is not to keep our "weapon" talk,but probably as an interesting info for you. I will try to tanslate these tactical characteristic curves; 1 - a calibre, mm 2 - a weight wth bullets 3 - a rapid-firing, shot/min 4 - a quantity of bullets 5 - a start speed of a bullet, meter/sec 6 - a distance of a precision shotting, meters 1 2 3 4 5 6 AK74 5,45 3,6 600 30 900 1000 Abakan-AN-94 5,45 , no any data, but the note - 1,5-2 times more effective than AK74 light-mashine guns Mk23, USA 5.56 7.1 200 100 990 1000 RPK74, Rus 5.45 5,5 150 45 960 1000 "Pecheneg" 7,62 3,9 250 - 825 1500 sniper gun "Vepr'" 12,7 bit throuh 6 mm armour- 3000 plalating But, truly say, I think that all of us, all countries, have to many weapons and guns and will prefer to have much less. And I was realy surprised that you mention God few times and support an idea to have a gun at home. As I know from the statistics - much more people are killed at home occasionaly, than robbers and thifts together. I never could understand a great american idea to have this stuff at home. You did not have any war on your territory more than a centure. That's why, I guess europians are much more careful. As I know almost in all eurocountries you do not have a right to have it, exept a hunting one, and even if you have it - you do not aloud to use it even if somebody is trying to come into you house. That is why, I'm sure we never heard about any shotting at schools nor in Europe, nor in Russia. OK, I want to hunt, for example, so I must keep my gun out from my kids. If a kid (less than 14 years old) kills somebody or wounded - I'll be in the prison for many years, because, according our legislation, I'm responsible for everything that he or she is doing. A kid can be in a court only he is older 14. When I watch many american movies (not all!!! for sure!!!) I have a feeling thet 50-60% of time everyone tries to kill everyone, than - 20% of love and at the end somebody is dying (beautifuly, of corse) saying his last wise words and than -a-a-a- two main heroes (she and he, beautiful of course too) kiss. The end. Another variant - an honest cop tries to arrest bad guys, after 20 minutes of a chase they dstroy downtown of NY,LA,SF and happy end again. Here we have a lot of europian films - German, French, British, Australian, Spanish, Italian - and somehow people in that movies can solve their problems without guns. They are talking. For sure here some euro trillers -one murder and investigation, but it much more clear - that to kill a man - that is terrible crime. I do not think that you know that in France and in Germany, and I guess in some other countries too, here are some limitation, not more than 15% of total amount of movies on TV, like that Hollywood production. I hope that my message will not upset you, but give you a will to think about your guns in a little bit different way! Shipa nasfan6 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/25/2005 8:38:09 PM   Shipa Doesn't upset me in the least. First an armed citizenry is not for just repelling robbers and thieves but to protect themselves from a tyrannical government. Also don't put much into what hollywood portrays about guns and violence, they have their own agenda. As for me and guns I have been around them all my life, my daughter was exposed to them and taught respect for weapons, they are not toys to be played with. I took her shooting when she was 7 years old, she did not have a curiosity about firearms after that, it was just something Dad owned and you didn't go around them because in the wrong hands they are very dangerous. You were suprised I made reference to God and owned firearms? I don't understand your analogy? You cannot be a God worshiping person and own a gun? In history and you will know this as well as anyone, the first thing dictators did in a totalitarian society was take the ability away from the citizens to defend themselves from a tyrannical government. I agree that killing another human being is a terrible thing. Though in the same thought if you break into my home, I take that as a direct threat on the ones I love and myself and I will not hesitate to drop the hammer on an intruder. I have looked at both sides of the gun issue and then I revert back to a biblical passage, Then Cain Slew Abel, then I ask my anti gun friends what calibre of gun did Cain use? There are many reasons for the way our world has gone and very little has to do with guns, but moreover how we have devalued the sanctity of life over the last 50 years. I can appreciate your feelings towards guns but I will politely disagree with your opinion! It's not weapons that kill people, but the people themselves. Thank you for your warm regards about my lady from Ukraine, she has somewhat a similar feeling towards guns as you do, but accepts the fact that it is a part of me and I am not irresponsible with them, nor am I'm inclined to make her enjoy them or even expose her to them. Later Mike scottlf Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/25/2005 9:05:26 PM   I would ultimately argue that governments don't and can't grant "rights". "rights" exist outside of government. As such, governments can only infringe upon rights. This is often done under the guise of for the greater good of society. Regardless, infringment it is. We can argue the intent of the 2nd Amendment as well, but it's intent is to prevent the government from infringing upon the right of Self Defense. This isn't specific to knives, swords, guns, rifles, etc. The right to Self Defense goes hand in hand with the right to Life. Ultimately, these are Individualist Epistemological views on my part. If you want to argue crime in the United States in regards guns, I would also argue that the bulk of such crime is caused by government policies to begin with, much for the same reason that crime was rampant in the era of Prohibition. But, that's my view. Man Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/26/2005 2:03:15 AM   Also those stories about being more likely to be injured by your own firearms than a criminal are simply not true. Anyway for me, the high cime rate in the US is only proof that I need a weapon. nasfan6 Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/26/2005 6:23:10 AM   Scott I have an excellent book for you. It is call The Law, by Frederic Bastiat. It is a classic blueprint for a just society. Short but an interesting read. It definately states your opinion that governments can only trample a free man's rights not create them. Later Mike scottlf Member send PM   block PM add to buddies Send: 1/26/2005 9:05:51 AM   Mike, I'm familiar with Bastiat. What I wrote above is mostly influenced by John Locke. Bastiat does sum it up nicely, too. Each of us has a natural right, from God, to defend his person, his liberty, and his property. AND Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place. Your Reply: Your name:   New Registration Password:   Forgot password?   refresh Code:   Russian brides > Main Forum > Protesters update
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