"We do not recommend "Pre-trip" correspondence. We view it as a waste of time and money, as it can create false hopes and feelings, unforeseen and unanticipated circumstances, not to mention the possibility of being taken advantage of or just plain old "ripped off."
Pre-Trip correspondence should only be used to see if a girl is
interested in a meeting or to see if she will be available to meet you when you are in town."
There is a bunch more but let us leave it at that.
Now I had come to the same conclusion. But I had worked out a slightly different angle. Really refreshing to hear this from somebody else though. In plain down to earth language without the hype or glitz. Especially when I have a very good friend who has just come back, super happy with these people and having found someone just right for him. Somebody he would ahave bypassed but for the help of the agency.
My idea which is still a work in progress was a trip to Chelyabinsk. I was talking to a nice woman there who fit the bll but was not so great looking as I had first thought. A flower delivery took care of that. You cannot believe the studio pics that are on th website. Or the ones that they send you. They always look cuter than they really are.
I must admit Marina was an exception. She looked even better in person and she had some really glamourous shots. Model type stuff.
Anyway back to Chelyabinsk.
I made several glaring mistakes when I went see Marina. I allowed myself to be talked into staying with her. Bad idea. I did not listen to my intuition. Bad idea. I didn't have a backup plan that was real strong. Stupid idea.
So I was going to solve all this with Chelyabinsk. I wrote to a bunch of women and said "hey I am coming to Chelyabinsk in August let me have your phone number". It got a response. These women are as sick of writing as I am !!!
However events have overtaken me. My money got temporarily wiped out by this silly New York bitch and the whole Kherson thing popped up.
One more thing. Frankly I am sick of these Russian women. They do seem to be ruder, more calculating and pickier than the Ukrainian women. This is only my impression. So a change of approach is called for.
Ukraine - visit not write - just do it.
I have a ton more I could say here but I will hang it up for now. Many will disagree with much that I have written and I wish you well. I am not an expert although I am rapidly becoming one. I am a little disillusioned but I am not givine up.
As for your offer TJ I thank you. Comapany is always nice but I have a feling I might be going with my friend in August. Just wish I hadn't just spent $200 on a Russian visa. A waste of money. Oh well that is what this is all about wasting money - until you get lucky :))
"The only thing that puts me off in all this, is finding women who can speak English and also that I like."
I forgot I wanted to answer TJ's post regarding English speaking ability.
I read an interesting article about ths recently that turned me around. Girls that can speak good English are more stuck up than those that cannot. I read this and I agree with it. I feel it is better to find a woman that didn't go to college, speaks minimal English and is loyal and honest than a doctorate that is fluent and a pain in the arse. Also your choice will expand exponentially.
RU girls are known to have a sort of low self esteem problem. They counteract this in the classic way. By becoming egotistical. I actually saw this with Marina. It was incredibly sweet when I got to see the real Marina.
If they cannot speak any English their chances of finding a husband drop dramatically. However I have come to believe that this is where the diamonds are. That is the bunch that gets ignored. Ask yourself. When you go to that search engine and it says 'Language Abilty' what do you choose? At least 'fair' right?
Never zero ability.
Then we are amazed. Wow she's a doctor, an accountant, a nurse, a business owner. Yeah right and what will she do when she comes to America/England/Australia? Wal Mart? No way man. I have already run into this several times.
"I will not be a seller or cleaner"
Well you know what woman? You will be whatever you can get a job at first and enough with the ego. One day you can take over general Motors but for now you will do whatever it takes.
the fact thay they cannot speak English should not be a determining factor. That is whay God invented translaters.
"there are agencies that are hooked up with the mafia, the agency gets the tourist over there and the mafia grabs them!"
Not worth worrying about. Maxi is right.
Maxi,
"The cost of accommodation in a place like Kerson would be as izi states. It wont be flash and the cost to the company he will use will be nothing as they will most probably own it."
You are absolutely right again.
They do own it but it is flash. The apartments are really nice. Being as the $900 covers everything for 10 days it is a hell of a deal. Just need another grand for presents and entertaining. I am going to be eating in restaurants the whole trip. I will host a lady at ech meal. However I spoke to the sister of the owner (she is married to an American in Tampa) and she said it is CHEAP. I thugh Russia was cool on that score but apparently Ukraine or to be more specific Kherson is even better. So I think I will do it this way. I think it will be easier on my nerves than this endless letter writing.
God bless your jam maker Maxi. Looks like you have found heaven mate. Good luck.
Izi and Maxi; this dialog has been great, it along with the 40 hrs I have spent reading past posts in this forum has reassured me of my choices. Many of the questions and some of the things I have done have been because of the advice on this forum. I did send flowers and have a picture sent to me of the acceptance, surprisingly, she is prettier in the flower picture than the studio shots. Now the studio shots are freaking sexy (Hugh Hefner could learn from her studio shots) but the flower shot is "girl next door" "drop dead" awesome. Keep the advice and experiences coming
izifaddag...."I forgot I wanted to answer TJ's post regarding English speaking ability."
Some interesting thoughts, that I had not considered. Sounds right though as my girlfriend who I dated for 4 years was highly educated and spoke perfect English but she was kind of stuck up! I wander how long it would take them to learn basic English? Maybe I'll broden my search...
I may also look into your idea and just hook up with an agency and head over there!
I have been mooning around lost ever since I split with Marina it has been a month and a half. I have not been able to focus on anything. I have tried to write to a couple of women but each time run into a problem.
Now I have a plan that can actually work and I feel better than I have done for weeks. Even solved the airfare problem thanks to Spirit and Wmferg. I shall go in September for 2 weeks to Ukraine and see what happens.
I got royally screwed over by this puta in New York this weekend. I lost something to the tune of $650 for nothing. Another stuck up, overeducated and overly egotistical female. Wasted my time and money. She pursude me and I decided to give it a try never again. Moscow is a place to stay away from and all women that come from there closely followed by St Pete.
Moral of this story. Don't be impressed with ability to speak English, education or job skills. It is a direct indicator of how stuck up they are. Marina also had this syndrome. Ironic because she didn't have a pot to piss in.
There are exceptions to this rule Toad has done well but you have to take into account Toad's personality. He will not take any nonsense from any female and has the wit to be able to deal with them right there on the spot. I don't think that quick unfortunately.
No I have decided that I need someone a little humbler and might I add just a hint more desperate:)
Better to have a wonderful wife that is a great mother and a cohesive plus to the family and works at WalMart than a bitch that thinks she is a godess.
Good question TJ.
Learning is directly proportional to motivation. You see where I am going?
I have absolutely no problems paying for a woman to learn English. I would sooner find a nice lady with no English who REALLY wants me than some stuck up grad student in whatever.
They will learn.
I don't want to steal my friends thunder but he has a girl who has zero English. She adores him. She is learning. Works in a shop/supermarket. She is motivated. Can't beat motivation.
She hasn't had any attention from Ukrainian men OR western men. Reason? No English. What a waste! My buddy struck gold pure gold!!
Incidentally I learned Spanish in 6 weeks. Full time immersion. IT WORKS.
ESOL is free and full time in South Florida. You can go as many times as you like. Whatever it takes. I plan onletting my new wife acclimatize for at least 6 months. So she spends that time learning English. She will learn like lightening. These women are generally smart.
tj . . ." I wander how long it would take them to learn basic English?"
Naturally, it all depends on 'their' desire. Of course, there is a question of the definition of basic. My experience has been that a motivated woman can learn her way around a menu, assist you checking in and out of a hotel, warn about potential danger and know basic "sweet nothings" within a month.
I will also say, the cost of English education is INFINITELY cheaper over there! But, for some reason all of the educators teach that durn Oxford English. (My apologies to the United Kingdom). "Ya'll" is a very valid word. thank you so very much.
When you are "in-country" get to know every translator you can; get numbers and addresses, these women will normally be MORE than happy to provide English assistance to 'your' lady at a very good price.
CASailor's comment, I think, echos what a lot of us have experienced. What good does it do if you both speak the same language, if one or both of you do not "understand" the other?
Go to Russia, Ukraine, Moldova, etc. etc. etc. Meet that girl, look her in the eyes, if you do not understand what is looking back at you, move on.
Of course, I am a believer that "true love" conquers all things. If there really is a connection, both of you will learn each other's language. . .and even develop a language of your own.
Of course, PERSONALLY, I would prefer all you guys to talk with women who were rated at 10 on the English scale. . .silly me.
"Don't be impressed with ability to speak English, education or job skills. It is a direct indicator of how stuck up they are."
I agreed with most of what ifi said, but this is not true in my experience. My lady speaks very good English, has two university eduations, plenty of job skills, and is not stuck up at all. I've also met very stuck up girls that didn't speak English and didn't finish a higher education.
In general, I agree: I have found that just making a trip and meeting girls through a local agency is the best way to go. Writing letters has not paid off for me at all, and even when I did have a corresondence going with several girls, one lived in Minsk, another in Odessa, and another in Tashkent. How can you meet them all in one trip?
VNV
As I said there are exceptions to this rule which is only a personal viewpoint anyway. Each one of has a different experience and there are no hard and fast rules. I only speak about what I have been through.
Your point about them being spread out is SOOO true. That is another reason writing is a waste of time. At first I didn't believe this but I have completely changed my mind.
If you can gather enough of them in one localized area fine. But I have found that they get very pissed if they think you are writing to anybody else. I have never understood that at all.
Therefore I agree with what the agency told me and it is really only a conincidence that it is Kherson in Ukraine. It could be anywhere. There are beautiful women all over the FSU. You could go anywhere and find someone.
I still stick with what I have said about Moscow and St Pete also the woman who lives in Tampa now told me to add Kiev to that list.
Builder Dude
"Remember, you will never win if you do not play the game! Good luck."
Errr thanks for the good luck mate but I have been playing this game for over a year now:))
I am about to try the old agency ploy:))
I even found a beautiful girl today who knows that agency and is a registered tranlator with them. She is very nice bit waaaaay to young for me. She has hooked me up with her friend though. I also had another date come through today.
So I am off and I will be sure to document all my latest errors so that you guys can learn from old Izi.
It is what I do best - screw up :)) LOL
Oxana my love. What do you think we are doing here? Looking for hookers? Nobody s breaking anybodys heart and if you kept up with the threads you will fin dmore than one guy (including myself) who has had HIS heart broken. So enough with the reproach. These men are serious I don't think I have met one guy here that I thought was a time waster. Well maybe Eeyore/SanchoPanza/Geriatrix.
It is expensive and time consuming to go my dear and is far more problematic for us than it is for the ladies. You women have it easy all you have to do is allow us to buy you diner after we have flown half way around the world. However if you want your heart broken write me and give me your phone number :))
Oxana,,many men here search because they were the ones whose hearts were broken by American femme-nazis,and these men hold on to an idea of a woman whose virtues outshine anything they have experienced in the US
Oxana,,many men here search because they were the ones whose hearts were broken by American femme-nazis,and these men hold on to an idea of a woman whose virtues outshine anything they have experienced in the US
One thing I want to mention about cold climates. I lived in the town called Wisdom,MOntana. It is very near the Big Hole Battlefield,where the sneaky calvary under Col.Gibbons decided to stealthily creep up in the tall grass upon a sleeping camp of Nez Perce Indians The sun was almost on the rise,and camp dogs were not yet aware of the marauding,rapacious,and homicidal soldiers. ANy way--the indians very quickly routed these shit ass American/Europeans,may of which survive today to kill young women and children in wars for control of oil and economic interests. I lived here for a year. It is typically one of the most mentioned cold spots in the lower 48 states,with temperatures falling 60 below zero. The town becomes socked in by heavy snows,and the community rides snowmobiles over the top of their drifted in 4 W Drives. Having lived this lifestyle ( the outhouse seat is remarkably cold for the first half a minute) I can say that women truly love you best when they are cold and begging for your body heat. It is something that brings people together,and it one of the most satisfying intimacies to be had with a woman. I have shaken my body spasmodically to create heat under the blankets for a reluctant woman--and never been so much loved and depended on for the security of heat. It is a wonderful,natural thing which I always loved-the same as splitting kindling at night to make a quick fire. This is s definite strength of a man-keeping his woman and family warm,and of all the things American women take for granted -this is one.