Aussi
I would look for another Travel Agent / Airline operator – if I was you. I have not spent more that $2600NZ to get to Kiev – Moscow is less. My wife went 10 days ago @ $2660NZ – via Moscow to Kiev. Go via BKK – AeroSvit – Should only cost you bit over 2KAU
You mention “And many Ukraine girls, treat the Western men that visit them as nothing more than "cash cows” the operative word being “girls” I don’t know what age you are corresponding with – BUT – girls there are just like girls EVERYWHERE !!!!!!!! They look upon life as a free ride and live one day at a time.
The same old - same old here on the Forum is – 90% of problems – failures – negative against FSU females etc – is because chaps are targeting way in arrears of there own age.
I – and a couple of others on here – have tried and tried to bring things back into perspective and get chaps to pull their heads out of the clouds – you will not succeed and will waste countless amounts of $$$ getting taken in by pretty young ones.
My 1st FSU lady was 32 – I was 46 – that was to big of an age gap. It was OK for a while then the obvious started appearing – we were not compatible. A relationship must be two people that are compatible – you can say and dream all you like – and yea the sex might be great for a couple of months – but eventually nature will takes its course – and you will drift apart.
Aussi you also say – “There’s a saying "only fools wonder in areas where angels fear to tread"
I say “you can lead a horse to water – but you cant make it drink”
Chaps – start looking at the success examples on here, ask yourselves - why have they worked/succeeded – stop wasting your time and $$$ chasing a rainbow – which will only want your pot of gold at the end of it !!!!!!!!!!
If you think that TEN YEARS is too big of an age difference to overcome - you are flat out wrong. I know of numerous situations where a ten year age gap has been overcome. I even know of very successful couple where both are from the US and there is a ten year or more age gap that has been overcome.
It must be remembered that success OR failure is contingent on a NUMBER of factors and variables. Age is only one of them.
Face it. Some of us here will NEVER be happy with who we find. Some of us are simply difficult people and while the novelty of an FSU wife may attract you (and her) your chances at long term success are small with ANYONE.
Some of us WILL be scammed. The lucky ones will lose a few hundred dollars and the girl won't make the ridiculous fake trip as she promised. The UNLUCKY ONES will lose a LOT MORE THAN THAT - in the form of lost years, lost hope and potentially tens or HUNDREDS of thousands of dollars in the form of divorce. There are women who knowingly perpetrate the BIG scam - I just described.
Some of us are magnets for women with problems. (You know who you are.) You found them all of your lives in the US or other western countries. You'll find them in the FSU as well.
There are THOUSANDS of ways to fail at this (and thousands of ways to succeed.)
But the worst guys, in my opinion, are those who have failed, through their own fault or not - who come back and try to tell the rest of us that we cannot succeed.
Wallow in your own failure if you must - but don't try to bring the rest of us down with you.
Misery may love company - but the company of men here - have generally had enough misery - and don't need to share yours.
"It must be remembered that success OR failure is contingent on a NUMBER of factors and variables. Age is only one of them."
I subscribe to this. So, it should be remembered that age IS a variable in the equation. This is exactly what some of us try to point out, and others disregard with obstinacy.
Ten years - Not a problem
My wife is 10 years younger than me !!! Its great.
My msg above was referring to the Lolita lookers / finders / correspondence’s
I am no statistician, or do I have ALL the facts in front of me – but – I have been on this forum for nearly 3 years, and have witnessed the same traits.
Age gap greater than 20 years – maybe 5% chance ????????????
More so today – the young girls/women today (in FSU also) are changing fast. They (females) have rights / power / strength / issues / opinions / habits / way different than even 5 years ago. The media machine has educated our young – made them look at life different – they wont make good partners for us oldies – unless we poor money down their throats continuously, or you lock them up until they get into their 30’s at least !!!
I'm senior to even you in this forum. Thunderdome predates me and MAYBE Gladiator (I honestly can't rememeber) but I don't think anyone else does. No regular writers anyway. (Wtrav02 a sometimes contributor - also has been here longer). I've witnessed the same thing that you have - but I think that the problem can be broken down even further.
Its not so much age as LOOKS. When you go after a KNOCKOUT of a woman, you are going to have problems.
Attraction is a social equation - and you better have something equivalent on both sides of the equal-sign. Be it intelligence, money, status, citizenship, looks, age, personality, beliefs or what-have-you.
If I guy is ordinary - and he goes after a bombshell of a woman (no matter WHAT the age difference) there has to be something on his side of the equation to compensate. If he has the means to pour money down her throat - that might work for a while. When it stops the equation is unbalanced and unstable. It can likely break apart.
You CAN go for a young woman - so long as there is parity in other aspects of your relationship. If she is drop-dead gorgeous and you aren't - that is another factor altogether.
In any event - let guys do as they please. If young isn't for you. So be it. Maybe it IS for other people.
(It IS a big deal for me - and I am VERY HAPPY with the lady I have found.) (If it were to end tomorrow, I would be happy for the days I have already had!!)
Jet
We seem to be running down parallel tracks here.
I agree with most of what you have said above – but I don’t think you want to understand what I am saying.
I might be “junior” to you and a few others on THIS Forum – but I started this FSU experience nearly 5 years ago. I also spent a far bit of time in Togliatti – Samara where I had the opportunity of spending much time at an Agency there, and went over all the Success profiles from approx 4-5 years of that Agency’s work. The American owner of that Agency – was actually married to a women 23 years his junior – never met her – but boy – he was the most dictatorial – bigoted prick – I have ever known – that poor girl would have probably been a prisoner of his – maybe not – but apart from his marriage, 90% of others that where still up and running, didn’t have birthdates differences greater that 15 years. Plenty of engagements with the younger girls – but most dropped out b4 marriage.
You are stating – from a mans side and point of view only, you don’t appear to be taking the other side into account – you appear also to be saying all the right things to justify WHY it SHOULD workout.
I am trying to point out the reality of a relationship where age difference is greater. We can all do what the girls want us to do or adjust perhaps to their ways and wants, but what about them. This is what I am trying to say – there immaturity and lack of life experience will not handle or adapt to it. Remember, you still have the language – culture – distance – removal from family/friends - hurdles that go against us in the FSU relationships development.
Good luck.
Ohh – 4got the most important part. I AM married to a Russian women, she’s 40 – looks 32 (according to everyone here) Gets looks from every man here – gets approached nearly every time we separate in town. I don’t worry – because we are rock solid, she is the most amazing WOMEN I have EVER met, I never thought women like her even existed (which they sure as hell don’t here in NZ). Our relationship is growing stronger by the day.
I want all men who take on the FSU challenge (it is a big one) to find what they want and be as happy as I am.
I do understand what you are saying. And the point is taken. But it seems that sometimes THIS particular point gets beaten over the head far more than it deserves.
YES we have to be realistic. But the lack of realism in THIS category is easy to see and easy to describe. And as such, because its like the flourescent orange painted deer in the forest, its the one shot at the most often. There are many more deer less obvious to see.
I, myself, had a "failed" relationship with a girl 23 years younger than I am. O have stated the reasons in other threads. When I went looking for her - I was simply looking for the most beautiful, most shapely, youngest woman I could find. And I found her. (And the 15 other guys on tour all seemed to AGREE!) She was materialistic, and noncommited, because she has always KNOWN she was gorgeous and she grew up as an only child to a widow (spoiled as all get out) in a big city. But I had a great three years with her spending altogether 23 weeks, both in the US and in Moldova, with her.
It what I was looking for at the time - so I cannot say I was taken. It didn't cost me THAT much anyway. And I can tell you a girl like that wouldn't have even considered me in the US - unless I was paying her CONSIDERABLY MORE and on an HOURLY BASIS (you know what I mean!).
This time I have one about the same age. But I went looking for a pleasing personality and one who came from the right family type environment. She is not as much of a STUNNER as the first one (but IS a stunner, anyway) and has a completely different personality.
And I am as happy as can be.
I think that SOME guys who marry older FSU women, sometimes have a case of "buyers remorse". They are happy (to be sure) with the ladies they get, but they miss the hunt. And they see so many other younger FSU women out there. They like to rationalize that those relationships don't work anyway - sort of as a means to statisfy and console themselves.
I just received another email from my "ex"lady. She tells me with remorse that she cannot believe we will not have a future together. She tells me that I was her her "hope" and she was always sincere about us.
And she ends the letter with shopping list of 15 things that she would like me to send her in a a parcel - including American shampoo, makeup, electric toothbrush, etc. etc.
ALL of this is driven by hormones. Its the nature of the search. If you just want a buddy - get yourself a bestfriend or a roommate. No commitment required. If you just want faithful companionship - get a dog. Guaranteed to never leave you. And if it tries, you are perfectly justified in building a fence or chaining it to a tree.
But in this case - why we are here - its ALL hormones. That's why men serch for women and women search for men.
And if you don't like young women - there are plenty of willing FSU Senior Citizen ladies on many websites.
jet,
of course I like young women but, differently from dogs and most animals, humans have (better, should have) a well-developed cerebral cortex!!! Good luck to you and your hypothalamus!!!
If all you want is a workout for your cerebral cortex - wouldn't a meaningful relationship with a male buddy or rommate do the trick? (Can't have those evil hormones running amok after all.)
You can even have more than one and they won't get jealous!
Good grief - I hope that isn't the exclusive reason you come to this forum.
Before this goes any further I feel its my duty to inform you that I prefer young WOMEN.
"of course I like young women but, differently from dogs and most animals,...."
...Which means that you like SOME animals (not most though) like young women?????
I think there are DIFFERENT forums for THAT, kingarthur.
(But seriously - kingarthur, no offense intended. I'm just "funnin'" with you this morning. I'm really not serious here or trying to provoke you. Just pulling your chain a little and goofing around.)
Jet
Mate – I here you loud and clear and fully understand your wants – wishes etc. And good luck to you, and I know you are enjoying life again – that’s great – good on you, you have had some rough times in the past and deserve it !!!!!!!!!!!
But – I started these comments – to take a shot over “Aussi” bow !!!!!
When (and it happens continually) chaps come on here bagging FSU women and categorizing all into one bin - that’s what annoys me, and I KNOW they are way wrong !!!!!
You talk about – room-mate – best friend - faithful companionship – Yes that’s what I wanted and found. But also – I think – nearly all the good points of the younger models – without the hang ups.
Don’t worry I like gorgeous 25y ones – had them on short term basis too – but 1st morning has me fully understanding why it will never progress further – they wont even get out of bed – let alone cook or clean etc.
Also – the younger (especially without child) are easier to find and hook up with – that’s not a problem. I spent 2 months in Kiev a couple of summers ago, EVERY day I would get the come on – it was tuff controlling THOSE Hormones then !!!!!!
"I went looking for a pleasing personality and one who came from the right family type environment."
"ALL of this is driven by hormones."
jet,
were you goofing around when you wrote about hormones or personality and family environment? :-)
A footnote. Unlike Maxirat, I've never spent a very long time in Kiev. My last visit, several months ago, turned into a fiasco with regard to girls I had been writing to (their age? 21-23, I am 43). Nevertheless, in those 5 days in Kiev I could console myself with the most unexpected and amazing affair of all my life. A flash in the pan, of course. Her age? 22.
You'll notice that I didn't say I was looking for a male buddy or a dog, with a pleasing personality or who came from the right family type environment. I am looking for a woman. And why? HORMONES!
Is that so complicated that you do nout understand it? (Must be because I'm writing in ENGLISH, right?)
Aussie,
In regard to apt rent, it is what it is, any country you visit you will have to pay at least $50. I understand it is expensive if you look at the cost per month. This is reason many families in Ukraine rent out their apts, I know this for a fact. I never realized how far and expensive it was for you to go to FSU. Luckily for me from Los Angeles it is less than a grand and is about 15 hours to Kiev. In regard to 'girls' I agree with you. Most seem to be there for what can be done for them. Some don't hide the fact that they are out to have a good time at a guy$ expen$e!!! But remember, not ALL are like that, hopefully you can find one that is interested in you as a person.
DCV, I have just completed my third tour and it IS getting better....knowledge and experience is VERY important to
sift through 'players' and get to the 'sincere'.
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