Im on a Kiev bound plane out of JFK three weeks ago and what do you know? Im sitting middle seat with a guy to my left and right both going to Ukraine to meet women. One has completely zero clue, going there for like the 3rd or 4th time to meet agency girls that he has never even as much spoken to and one that is basically playing sugardaddy to a kid 25 years younger than him that would make any man drool over himself. And this guy was so out of his league looks department.
So the more I think about it, it becomes more and more strange to me why guys would do this. I mean, no offense to the guys on the board that myself and others have posted countless times to actually talk to and get to know a woman before going to see her but why would anyone be so stupidly desperate? Do you really think showing up, meeting a person whom you have never spoken to and hanging out with her a couple of days will go anywhere? Does the wealthy guy that is paying for the 22 year old models apartment and giving her 20k in jewelry really think shes in it for love with him? I mean, did IQs fall that far recently?
I admit myself that I met two other women before finding my Nathely that were just wastes of time. The first, we spoke on phone and email for 3 months but in person, just didnt match up. The second was a complete fraud, from the pictures she sent to the words she wrote. Once I got there, I knew it was all a waste of time. And it only got worse from there. Complete miserable experience.
But at least I knew these women from months of daily or every other day communication. And I didnt give them a dime (even though fraud woman asked for it - once I had booked my ticket and upon being there).
And finally meeting Nathely when I was about to give up the whole Ukraine experiment made it all worth while and gave a spark of encouragement to a very bleak experience. After several visits, months of emails and Skype talks daily, we have filed for her K-1. Now to just wait the next four to six months...
But I say in each and every case, the women spoke conversational English and we knew a lot about each other prior to the visit. I mean why would anyone go meet a woman who couldnt speak English or communicate without assistance? I mean, say for some starstruck chance reason you two hit it off, what kind of relationship would you have not being able to communicate? And her learning English or you learning Russian enough to communicate like a couple should is a long process...one that will take longer than your relationship will last for sure.
So all I can say yet again to those on the board still doing this foolish crap...meet a woman through a site that you dont have to pay for ever message. One that you dont have to pay to meet her upon arrival. One that you can communicate and call her at any time. And then get to know her as a person. Be realistic. Do you really think a 22 year old woman wants a 47+ year old man? If you were 22 would you want a 47 year old person as a mate? Get serious!
And honestly, the woman shouldnt even kind of ask what kind of money you make. Nathely has never once asked me what kind of money I make or what I can do for her. She just wants to be with me whether I come to the Ukraine or she comes to America. Whatever money you make is tons more than shes making over there I assure you. The Ukraine is a dump, period. Kiev is the only remotely decent city and still sucks compared to similar sized American cities. And if she was dating someone who makes more money than you, she wouldnt be on the websites. So take that to heart. You forget that women are a dime a dozen in the Ukraine. A man with a decent job looks at women as easy come easy go because the fact is that they are over there. Ukrainian men are equal to American women...same outlook. American women think they should be earned or won due to our society and culture. Over there, the men know they can have another beautiful woman the next day if they choose to. Just like how an attractive American woman knows she can meet a new guy any time she dresses up and goes out.
So guys think about this and use your head. A trip over there isnt cheap...you are looking at a minimum of 3-4k for a week or less trip by yourself. And some of you that have the money that sneer at that as nothing, well again get a grip. Thats a lot of money to throw around for a whim for most people. If not for you, then good for you. You are wealthy. Unfortunately, you are probably very unattractive and obviously alone and havent realized money cant buy you love even though you have and will continue to try with it.
I just read on these forumns every time I log in all these stories about this scammer and that scammer and this bad experience. Every time its the same story. Guy meets girl through agency or website, rushes over there without getting to know them or is thinking of forever because a beautiful woman gave him the time of day when shes just doing it for money. A woman interested in you gives you her personal email after 1 or 2 letters on the site. They do it because they are interested in you as a person and not just a paycheck.
If you are too blind to read and follow directions then you deserve to get scammed. Do everyone a favor and delete your account so I dont have to read new posts about it every other week please.
"Im on a Kiev bound plane out of JFK three weeks ago and what do you know? ... One has completely zero clue, going there for like the 3rd or 4th time to meet agency girls that he has never even as much spoken to and one that is basically playing sugardaddy to a kid 25 years younger than him "
Funny Devil.......I assure you I was not on that flight, my flights go directly to europe for connections and the gf here wouldn't agree with you. She thinks many guys here have no clue about ukraine....but that is only one girls opinion.
So where is the likeness......I have never met agency girls but once and I am not a sugardaddy, only for dinners and entertainment,not shopping.
Very interesting stuff. I have only been reading this forum for a few day. Already I can equate it to a few years studying psych at on of our higher learning institutions. Yeah, I am a newbie. This has been most entertaining and educational from the get go. Too bad I didn't know about this a month earlier. I can put some things into perspective. Since I am not familiar with you all I will just add comments about some random postings. And try to put a few ideas into perspective. For one, scamming. I have been scammed by US women. Not in the traditional sense as stated here but comparatively so. I will inject an idea or two about the sexual tourist, and some ideas about spending money and geting pleasure out of money spent.
Every year I fly to CA -Bakersfield of all places - and either rent an SUV or camper. Then drive up to spend a week in a campsite with a group of men (men only) next to the Kern River. Sometimes I drop $225 a day just for a guide to float the rapids and fly fish. Most of the time is spent drinking beer and playing cards, hiking whatever. And we eat like kings I assure you. The point is I drop close to 3K on this trip. Don't get laid and have a blast.
So if someone decides to spend that much on a trip to the Ukraine for a different sort of 'vacation'. More power to him. I have just now learned of this. And I assure you I am not by any means desparate. I have no expectations and am looking at is as a possibility to meet someone. I have had the shits of American women. And I assure you I have no pipedream of going to the Ukraine, find a young beautiful lady and bringing her back to US as a trophy. I am too realistic for that. Nor would I actually want that. More later...
First of all, Thank you Nasfan. Your emails helped immensely with everything and even more help to come once she arrives here. You have no idea how helpful you were.
Secondly, about the vacation Julian. I guess it depends if you see it that way. I never really saw the Ukraine as a vacation per see. Of course, Ive never been much of a vacation person my whole life anyway. I would rather make it a weekend or a long weekend get away in America than take a whole week off. But thats just me.
I dont think you can approach the Ukrainian interaction as acquiring a trophy to bring back because as soon as you do that, odds are a bigger fish is going to come along and snatch up your tender morsel. What you have to look at it is meeting a wonderful woman who dreams of meeting a great guy. From all accounts I have discovered finding a great guy over there is about as rare as a needle in a haystack. Every single woman I have ever spoken to, interested and not interested in, young and old, all say the same thing. Guys treat women like dogs over there. Its completely one sided. Guys know that they can leave one woman and have another the next day if they have a job and are remotely attractive looking.
What Im getting at this is that there are tons of wonderful women over there that just dream of being loved and having a stable home life. They arent about upgrading or having new Mercades. Heck, most of them cant even drive a car over there, much less worry about leather seat options.
But yes, I have to admit that looks wise, nothing comes close to Ukrainian women. They dont have the hourglass figures of American women and you wont find large breasted women there hardly at all. But you will find women that care very deeply about their appearance. You wont see them in a baseball hat and sweats on a Saturday trip to the store like you find American women. They walk everywhere so their bodies are much more toned than the cupcakes here in America. Just a whole totally different deal altogether.
So dont see it as going and bagging a trophy. Techincally, it is because they are just superior to American women every way around except for maybe earning potential. Think of it as rescueing a wonderful woman from a less than spectacular life and giving her opportunities that she never would have dreamed of having there. When you meet someone and fall in love with them, you want to give them the best life possible.
ndfb, that is my point! I did not have a dream to vacation there. There are a hundred more places on the list that I will never get a chance to do. It should be obvious the only reason I am going is to meet a lady. As I have stated, and hopefully this doesn't sound too defeatist, the women in my area a f----d up. I don't have to go into details... My true ideal is to find a lady as you describe. Someone who is looking for a man that will cherish her. And I assure you whomever that may be will be very pleased. I have never been a player. Not the way I was brought up. Yet why shouldn't I after hearing so much of how wonderful these ladies are not consider it as a viable option to the ungrateful women where I am? Maybe you misunderstood my message. I am not on a pussy tour. I can do that here. I am honestly thinking - although I am becoming a bit less than intrepid after all I have read - that there are really good looking, honest and smart women who would jump at the chance to meet a man to enjoy a life with. I am no slouch. So why not? As I have stated or at least tried to is that I am not on a quest for easy fun. I realize there will be a lot of temptation and probably more than a few dishonest meetings. I assure you I have been around. Sex means little to me. Don't get me wrong. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a night pounding some pretty young thing if that's what you want. It just isn't my style. Sure, over the years I have. I would rather have someone to travel with, enjoy life in general and explore new things and the world. So that is my quest. Yes of course there is no doubt in my mind that there will be sexual bliss. But I assure you that is not why I am going. 'nough said. My point was that if I met a really good person who wanted to spend time with me great. If not I will count it as a vacation that I had a lot of fun at.
I must correct my original posting here. Yes I am going with the possiblity to meet someone. But I have no delusions. I probably didn't state it properly. Sure I am hoping to meet a beautiful lady. Why not?
Ok thank you for elaborating Julian. Myself and Nasfan can both attest to the fact that there are wonderful women there. That one can indeed find someone there that is just...wow...in every sense of the word. But its not easy and its not fast. And not without faults or costs.
All I can say is to take your time and talk to a woman extensively. You shouldnt be using pay per letters and you honestly probably shouldnt be talking to anyone not "good" or better rating at English. Nathely is fluent in English both reading and writing but much of the common American slang and small talk she misses. Its just different than talking to an American woman who much of the small talk revolves around flirting and sexual things.
There are many websites out there but the only one I have ever used and ever will suggest is elenasmodels.com. Now not to say there arent scammers there. There was a blonde beauty out of Kharkov that would make your eyes cross looking at her but she was such a scammer. She would write, give you her number, then disappear only to write you a month later or so out of the blue, disappear, etc.
You have to realize that the hot hot ones have many men. Many men visiting them and many men writing them. Fact is that they arent stupid. They know their worth and if they are from a place like Kiev, Odessa, or Yalta, then they have been around the ride enough to know. You also forget that in the Ukraine, easily 40% of the pretty girls engage in some form of prostitution at some point. Fact is that 1) Prositition isnt looked at as the oh my gosh thing it is here and 2) a woman can make more money in one evening than she can in a month working.
Many foolish, foolish men (including far too many on this forumn) think that money buys all. Sure, one of the beauties will take their money, let the guy entertain them, and maybe even have sex with them. After all, they get quite a bit in a week of a visit and walk away with significant gains. After all, odds are they did prostitution before so whats the difference? Fact is that these guys have no chance. I mean, who the hell wants someone 25+ years older? NO ONE finds that attractive.
I can honestly say that Nathely has never once asked how much money I make. She knows what I do generally for a living but not much else. Shes never asked for a dime from me. And this is a woman who never has had much.
But Ive also met a woman through there that was such a golddigger it was crazy. So you get all types. It took me a while making mistakes before I honed my senses and could look through the BS for the signs. And I was so very, very lucky that I found Nathely. Actually, she contacted me first believe it or not. That was definately my lucky day.
Here are some tips. If they show pictures in bikinis, forget. A decent woman wont show her assets out of the gate. Secondly, if you see pictures of them on boats or expensive retreats, understand that they didnt get there by themselves. That is some rich guy taking them for a weekend of sex and good time. They just have the picture as a reminder to show you. Thirdly, if they start talking about how bad it is over there (yes it is very bad), dont get into it with them. A woman should be happy with you on a dirt floor and no a/c if shes really after love. Lastly, once you get talking and they start the lovey doveys quickly...thats a huge red flag. If they talk about coming to be your wife quickly...thats a huge red flag. No woman wants to leave her family, friends and life behind for someone she hasnt even met yet. Best you should get is a "we'll see".
Hope it helps man. I agree with you on the spoiled American women. Thats what made me look elsewhere. American women are like Ukrainian men...they place far too much value on themselves because of far too many years of being spoiled.
ndfb, thanks for your input. I appreciate it. It sounds as though you get me. I am fully aware of the perils of this idea. More than getting ripped off by some sweet lady, my biggest fear is HIV. From what I have read about the area - not on dating sites - is that it is a hot bed for HIV. I have not seen it discussed here. Interesting that it is not mentioned??? If a lady wants to show me a good time on our first meeting she will be shown the door. And as for being a lonely desparate man that will melt when some pretty young thing throws herself at me, not a chance. I have been with very beautiful women, rich poor and in between. I am a very wise person. I have met a few through elenas. One said she could get me a good apartment right away. She has been dismissed. Any those that show off their body in skimpy clothes do not even get a second thought. I am different than many in that I am trul seeking a decent lady and would expect a decent lady to have modesty about hersel.
As for my other comment in general about spending money on women. Three nights in an expensive downtown hotel in Philly, 2 tickets to 'A Chorus Line', $200 at a restaurant so overrated - I never did write the review, thanks for reminding me, 2 Flyers tix, plus since it was her first NHL game we did the whole arena thing $$, a night walking around rittenhouse and finding an excellant hole in the wall restaurant. $$$ Worth it. Tips for the valet etc,etc etc. Plus the flowers I arranged to be sent to the hotel. All this $$$$, finding out later she is a cheap (has bucks) self centered and unappricaitive woman before I got in too deep - priceless. Which reminds me, she absolutely had to go to trader joes to spend money - TJs is way over rated.
A lady I dated last year - story should be made into a movie eneded in June, scary at the end!!! Yet I am in California and she calls and wants me back. Called me after Christmas. Mentioned she saw me in a different car - assume new SLK350 - the car is cute. Told her she was mistaken. Have a nice day! I don't have a new slk.
So... People want to know why I am looking "over there" for a woman. Now we know. To have a chance to find an attractive lady who is not assuming everything and who is actually just a nice person. That would be priceless.
I beg to differ with you that Russian girls (women)don't write men first. In over a month I have been on elenas I have received over two dozen unsolicited letters +/-. And many more of what they call an EOI. I for one believe him his lady wrote to him first. I did not open them all. I replied to a few. After reading their profile or for wahtever, obvious scammer etc I deleted most of them. I have established communication with one from the lot. We shall see if anything develops. Anyone under thrity who contacts me immediately gets flushed.
By the way, I did not put up a posting claiming to be the next best thing since sliced bread. I did not brag about this or that, I did not even hint at having money. In fact I even said I am not a wealthy man and that I live modest life. I approached it in a humble manner and basically I did not promise anything other than to be a caring person. I did not post fabulous photos of myself etc.
Women do contact men. The right men.
Im not saying they dont contact. Im saying a lot are contacting just looking for a life preserver in this crisis. You have no idea how hard the Ukraine has been hit by it.
Something you must understand in Ukraine is that most women live with their family well after age 20 unless 1) they come from money 2) they are divorced and got an apartment in the divorce 3) they are very well educated with a very good job or 4) some sugar daddy is taking care of them like the fellow I met on the plane last visit. Fact is that Ukraine is America circa 1950. Career opportunities are just not there for women. There isnt equal rights and equal pay. Im not saying a woman cant have her act together completely and have this but if that was the case, why the hell would she need you?
The fact is that the BEST you can hope for is meeting a woman from a good family who exhibits the family values and treats you well to give you a nice family life. One thing about Ukrainian women is that they understand and respect family life. To be married with a family is a big honor for women there. Not all and it is coming more and more common to see Westernized wardrobe and moneyhounds there but by large its the exception. Odds are that you wont be getting a big money maker in her. Best you can hope for is for her to get a nice office job making 20k a year if you are lucky. But again, if you are looking for a wife to make a nice check, stay American. Unfortunately, you will have a ton of issues to go with that paycheck.
The problem with American women, which most men here already have figured out, is that they are just too damn spoiled from birth. I mean, the big joke of marriage to the bride is that the first two words he needs to know as a married man is "Yes Dear". Women are raised from birth to EXPECT to be treated like a princess and every mother wants her daught to marry a rich and successful doctor. Thats the dream. All it does is create a society of pirrana that are constantly one upping. American women EXPECT no DEMAND certain things from a man. And why? Hell, most American women cant hold a candle in the looks department to Ukrainian women. So they run around with their big asses and big waistlines and think just because they have a big pair of boobs, being real or fake, that they are all of a sudden the hottest thing on the planet! No thank you. I much prefer my Ukrainian woman who actually cares how she looks and will glady refuse that fast food because she doesnt want to "add any plus kilos". Chuuu...American woman would wolf down those fries and big macs like they were water barely avoiding taking your hand off!
And Im not going to make this a pissing match with you Bear but the fact is that a woman of any character or moral dignity does not go around prostituting herself in revealing clothing in a public display to get attention. Thats just poor taste. And if they have confidence and faith in themselves, they shouldnt need to. And I assure you that all that traveling you claim wasnt on her dime. One, they just dont make much money there and two, why would she if she was so beautiful and had options? Use your head here man! BUt enough time wasted on you.
Julian, yes the risk of HIV is high in Ukraine but not any higher than it is in our big cities. You forget Kiev and Kharkov are the exceptions, not the rule. I remember my first trip to Kiev seeing all those incredible women with black knee high leather boots and barely keeping my tongue in my mouth! But try going to Los Angeles and finding a wife. Good luck. Thats what Kiev is...the LA of Ukraine. How rampant do you think HIV is in LA?
Fact is just take it slow and look for the ones that exhibit the qualities you want. Be realistic with the age and the looks. If you are average looking, dont go after a supermodel 20 years younger just because she may return your initial interest.
Keep in mind ALL sites, monitor how often the women respond. If a woman gets 50 requests for communication and replys to 2, she gets a nasty letter saying pick it up or you are off from the site. This is fact.
Im going to give one last piece of advice and take it for what it is worth. In Ukraine, women with children might as well have a sign on their forehead that says WORTHLESS. Men just dont want them. Its not like in America where its expected after age 24 for any woman you meet to have a kid and the women expect you to take it with a smile. Over there, the guys dont have to and they wont. Which means most of the single moms are sitting at home on friday and saturday night doing nothing ever week. If meeting a woman with a child is acceptable, you can really do well.
Also keep in mind that there is no such thing as child support in Ukraine. None. Once the divorce is done, very few men ever give much attention to their child again. So you have these beautiful women with a child just dreaming of meeting a good man and making a family together. Someone that will respect her and take care of her in return for her devotion and love.
Martin you have zero clue what you are talking about. Have you actually been to Kiev or Kharkov or are you just talking more out of your ass like normal? Im sorry if I struck a nerve when my words of older, unattractive men trying to buy a pretty young woman way out of their league applied to you but get over yourself. Im trying to help this guy, something that you, in all your rantings on this page, have yet to do.
ndfb Obviously there is much speculation in your words about the 40%. And if is really true I would cancel my plane fare and take the loss. Interestingly enough - not that it matters to anyone who reads this - after my divorce and not having kids I spent years being a big brother. I'm not sure how global it is but it is a good organization. Kids with no father--strictly volunteer work. I spent many many hours with kids from broken homes. And the love I got from these children was much more worth it to me than someone who spends money in the Ukraine searching for pussy.
I must say thanks to you for sharing much of your knowledge. But it seems as though you are overly agressive in you views to the American women. I agree wholehaeartedly. But I get it. And I agree 100% But you seem to refer back to it often. I'm sure someone put you over the edge. As it is the same for me. No need to continually dwell on it. I am not putting you down - believe me I know. But it detracts from the valuable insight you present. I have never dated a woman in the US who ate fast food. So I cannot comment on that aspect of you comments. Shit, the one lady I dated counted how many f...ing almonds ate had for lunch. And she only drank FRESCA! with a good amount of ABSOLUTE! I must admit it was a tasty drink. NEXT!!!
As for the ones who contacted me, I picked them out instantly. And I am new at this. Yet there were those who I knew were actually sincere. I do have standards though. So I know what you mean about the have to make an effort deal with the agency.
I have advertised that i am more than willing to meet a lady with a young child -not a 2 yr old - but somewhere reasonably in between 5 and 12. Maybe I'll find one, maybe I won't. It is all good advice from you. thanks
Martin, Have you been tested recently?
ndfb hope you were not offended by my comments (about your comments) about american women. I agree with you 100%. It was just that you mention it often. I get it!!!!! Believe me. And hopefully everyone else out there understands why a good looking, well off man from america is looking to another place to find a woman with character and basic family values. It is rare these days where I live.
19 trips to FSU, 13 of which to Ukraine, been to Kiev, Odessa, Nikolaev, Nikopol, Dnepropetrovsk, Zaporozhye, Berdansk, any others that I have forgotten, more times than I care to remember, married to a Ukrainian 'pretty' lady for 4 years blah blah blah and you're not wise enough to strike a nerve in my direction and your mere reaction to my suggestion that your '40%' quote is 'talking from butt' clarifies that you are bullsh1tting your way through life!!!
Never been to Kharkov though, my most humble apologies ndfb, I didn't appreciate that a trip to Kharkov (Kharkiv) could have made me so much wiser like you. :)