1: By your definition, then, the fact that women who are on a dating site (f.com) and offer their personal email address, would suggest the profiles in question to be real (various forms of communication, no agency involvement).
2: This thread on this 'virtually useless' forum has so far offered fairly sound advice on ways to spot scam profiles, and to protect ones online identity. I'd be interested to know why, if you find this forum so useless, you are here?
3: I offered four points of definition of the 'ladies' in question: photo, age, city, contact details. Please explain on what you base your assumption that I'm "only looking at the photo's" and not reading the profiles.
4: For your information, I've been on elenasmodels for as long as I have fiance.com. It might interest you that this lady: (http://www.scammerlist.com/memberid/134710) contacted me on f.com, offering me agency-free direct contact from the get-go. I did the scam check that found this link. After ignoring her, imagine my surprise to see her on elenasmodels. I think you'll find that, by percentage, there's significantly more 'glamour shot' profiles on there than there is on f.com.
There is an old saying: assumptions don't make an ass out of you and me, just you.
No Muzz, but that is a good start. As you have yourself found out, the scammer ladies are everywhere, sometimes on multiple sites. And the real ladies also have nice photos. I didn't see anywhere where you mentioned the profiles details, but there is more to the profiles that one should take as important than age, city, and contact details. I'm here only because there are a few folks who seem to be real gents and ask questions. All of the scam tactics you keep brining up are actually old topics, covered many times over. This forum is overrun with a bunch of antiques who derail threads and continue their own on-going vendetta. What you will notice is that very few of the topics go beyond the beginnings of relationships. Very few talk about what happens down the road; virtually none talk about what happens once you two to agree to get together. There a couple of other forums that offer tons more information and opinions.
Don't worry about me, in a week I will become a very distant contributor here.
In spite of our disagreements here, I hope that won't be the case. I personally have found this forum to be quite useful. However, I know exactly what (and who) you mean about the perennial thread warriors who's mental and physical age seem to differ, which is why, personally, I'd prefer if you stick around - if only to give us your experience in the 'after visa' advice which you rightly point out is missing.
I'm aware that there are more to a woman's profile but, once more, there you go with those assumptions again. I always read the full profile, and if I was a sucker for a pretty picture, I'd have been scammed a dozen times over just by the Nikolaev girls who write to me on this site alone.
I actually didn't bring up any scam tactics. In fact, the profiles in question being non-agency and non-'pay per letter' put them outside of the scam tactics most often spoken of on here, which is why I pointed them out. I'm not saying they're one thing or the other. I brought them up to provoke discussion between those who are here, now.
You're certainly right, that real women do have nice photos. I met some very genuine women in Sumy who's photo's on here could be classed as 'glamour' (which is a subjective term to say the least), so this alone doesn't classify one as a scammer. Neither does being from Lugansk. Neither does having a private email address (often listed as an advantage of elenasmodels).
I stand by my claim that open, frank discussion is healthy both for this forum, and for the non-'antique' (to borrow a barronism) among us
Baron, I will use a statement you laid upon me. "You need to do your research better before making claims that you have made. I have written here a litany of topics regarding bringing the lady to your home country. Preparations that one may make, some shortcomings and pitfalls. Drivers Licesnes etc. After being in country for a while. So your research is a little short sited.
Bring up a topic and I will send you to the thread. K1 is the easy part but it seems to me someone is getting a little full of themselves because of it. See you have little "after visa advice to give." So keep the cheap shots coming. Since you seem to be so full of yourself now that you have your K1.
I agree with Baron, a real woman is one who EXISTS in the way you have seen her come across in her correspondence to you, who confirms to the normal beliefs that exist or are created when such contact ensues throught the internet or dating sites who purport to HELP such men having desire to contact certain type of women for certain purpose :)))
a woman you get through an agency may be REAL or may not exist. she may exist for the sole purpose of making the agency money (normally in pay per letter sites).
other women may exist, but may nor conform to the first para. she may be out to have a good time, and may already be married or have kids and no serious intentions. I have been warned that such women may operate normally in Moscow and tourist cities like Odessa etc. Luckily i have not met such women personally. you can see their profiles advertised on ESCORT sites, where they profess their true intentions, to entertain business clients, with plenty of money. some women are willing to have a short or long holiday with you too, and mention it clearly (see rambler.ru and other dating sites for women who clearly say this on their resume), I had some letters from such types of women, and some tell this in thier 5th letter only :)) you won't know till then.
Can anyone come up with other types of UNREAL women ?
there are many other types I have left out.
PS there is a bug on this site, I typed a full letter, and when I filled in the code at the bottom, the next page said, code is wrong and to press back button. I did that on my browser, and nothing was there, i lost my entire letter, did any of you get this problem ? I use IE6.0.
I think it's a time-out thing. Happens to me all the time if I rant for too long. I tend to copy my chapter & verse before I post, then curse at the forum when it gives me that message, then go back, paste and it tends to work :)
@mike666, the web's forum software is really primitive. To save time, I always click "refresh" (to the right of the magic code) and let it update, before I type the code in. It seems to expire in a minute or so.