It is a interesting point, My first meeting with a Ukrainian girl was plain sailing, a real nice girl not a scam and very honest. My second meeting with a different girl was a complete joke, i did not see it comming, the girl was a complete opposite from the way she came across online, basicly it was a honey trap. I have to take a little responsibility but ultimately she was at fault. Basicly a scam is this a woman lies about her love for you and preys on the human instinct and the desire to be loved, It is a huge lie and in my opinion the worse lie a person can tell. I would say that these type of people are sick. The problem is the damage it does and the scant disregard that the agencies and governments of these countries have for the victim. It is right the scammer is so screwed up in their world of deceit that she genuinly believes that you are the fool and you got what you deserve. Truth is i never asked to be lied to or deceived of money who would ?
You and me have about the same story, figgis. My first girl was not a scammer.
My second girl was. I went to Ukraine on a budget. I took into consideration activities we might want to do, and any minor emergencies that might arise. Instead of activities or emergencies, the girl scammed me out of it. I would have given it had she asked truthfully. I still gave it because she asked, but she lied to get it.
Although she was a scammer, I believe she wanted a husband for companionship and to help her raise her boy, whom I gotten very fond of. The problem was, other than she being a liar and a scammer, she had other suitors and I believe she was still in the process of deciding who. One time, we were both on the computer, and she was sitting on my lap. Her phone rang and I heard the other party say, "Hi, this is Dave from Australia." She hung up on him. She didn't know I heard him, and I mentioned it a few days later. She accused me of looking into her computer files. She allowed me to use her computer for the internet, but that's all I used it for. Because she was a scammer and a liar, I didn't call her again. But I did e-mail her. She answered a few, but quit.
Before my third trip, I e-mailed her that I was coming. She answered and was quite excited. I told her I was going to see someone else because she quit writing me. I would go see her if my visit fizzled. She said to go see her anyway, and there will be no attitude. I didn't go see her. She e-mailed me later on, quite upset that she and her son was waiting for me. I told her I was going back in the summer. Before summer, she e-mailed me again that she was waiting. I didn't answer. I never heard from her again.
The girl that stitched me was a classic pro date, Like i said from correspondance she was quite nice but in meeting her she was only interested in money and gifts, one night i logged onto my blackberry and saw that she was online and chatting at the site she was a member of, funny thing about this was the girl was actualy in the room with me at the time. It showed me this girl was part of a set up, she does the dating, interpreter does the chatting and obviously the proceeds get split. She apologised about her being online during our date and said it was her sister looking for a guy. I confronted her and in all honesty it is the best thing you can do, these girls think they can do anything to you. She had no answer at all to me calling her a scam to her face and to be honest it hurt her because she was embarrassed to actualy see the hurt that she had caused me face to face, The interpreter had a bit of a smile on his face because he could see that i had got this girl cornered and she had no answer. These people are hard but not heartless if you confront them and embarass them they feel the pain. I felt better for confronting her, no woman likes to hear that she is a liar cheap and almost heartles to the point of frigid. Sometimes the truth hurts and she did not like to hear the truth.
By the way, I was aware that she might be scamming me each time I gave the money. For example, I paid $85 USD for a hotel room, double occupancy at Boryspil Hotel. Something was going on. This woman asked me $100 a day for an apartment.
I had not been in this forum then and my first woman was not a scammer. I had read Elena Petrova's book on "How to Find and Marry a Girl Like me." That book did not have a word about scammers. I therefore was not educated on how prevalent these scammers are.
I know what you are saying here Ragingbull. Myself now i am almost completely paranoid about scammers.My mind now say i think she is a scam because i paid over the top for an apartment i think she is a scam because she asked for money to pay utility bill, of coarse then there is that little voice saying maybe she needs the money maybe the apartment company made up the price for her foreign man. It is not my fault i now think like this, it was thrust upon me by the totaly corrupt dating business in ukraine and i would happily go public and say this any day. Howether i continue my search and the scam radar is always on unfortunately.
Do any of these "profesional dater" types ever not reveal any dishonest intentions until you get there? I suspect the girl i'm email might not be legit based on some very subtle things. I've flat out asked her in emails if she is a scammer and she has assured me that she would never ask for money. That she wouldn't have a guy come over if she wasn't truely interested. Time will tell with her but this style of scammer would in my estimation would be very difficult to identify. Have guys on here been scammed by girls who just are looking for guys to take them out to eat, movies, vacation, etc. and didn't see any indication of it before the trip? I mean she didn't set up the apartment for you, interpreter, ask for money etc. And in looking back you didn't get any clues she didn't have serious intentions.
Bob, meeting in person is different to talking over the internet. I'm sure there are many cases like this but maybe the girl isn't so keen on the guy once she meets him for real, not because the girl is looking for a free movie or meal?
Mr. Johnson, I wouldn't call them professional daters. If you believe Elena Petrova (from Elena's models) as I do, FSU women are thought of to be old maids if they are not married after their early twenties. I think most of these women are really looking for mates, and when you get there, they decide whether you are or not it. Of course, there are exceptions. I think it was Jamie that suspected that the taxi driver was actually the lady's husband or boyfriend.
I only used pay per letter, as that was what I started with and the virtues of membership sites like fiance.com was not explained to me. I belive the letters from these sites are usually done or with the help of professional letter writers. While these letters tell you they are ready to get married to you or someone like you, you still have to qualify when you get there. That is why I believe it also pays to call and e-mai them. I think the biggest problem is since they are on the web looking for mates, there are others like you in their portfolio. I read that only one in ten who write actually visit, so by visiting, you up your chances ten fold.
Some will show their hand yes, if you insist on booking the apartment yourself or even book into a hotel she will not be happy about it and she will let you know about it. Also if you double up and insist on using your own interpreter again she might throw a fit and show her anger at you. She will initialy be angry at you and look for any excuse to bail out. Some pro daters are part of a set up, when you come to meet the girl you actualy do meet the girl in the photos,her reward is to go on dates and eat out at your expence and maybe even try and find a way of getting you to buy her gifts, some will actualy jump into bed with you if it gets her what she wants, the pro date thing does not mean professional dater it means something else. The correspondance is done by an interpreter the meeting is done by the girl and they both split the proceeds.
If you suspect that you are chatting to an interpreter and not your girl sometimes it will show up in type errors. My scam date always said she used an online internet based interpreter and she could not speak English or write it, sometimes these interpreters are chatting to 2 or 3 guys at a time, they have to speed type and then the type errors show up, they are easy to spot you only need to look at your keyboard to know how a qwerty keyboard is set out to realise that your girl is typing on an English keyboard and not a russian one, so you have to conclude that either you are talking to an interpreter or your girl is not honest about her English ability or her online interpreter is capable of spelling and type errors. In all honesty howether, if a girl says yes use your own interpreter and book your own apartment then she is pretty honest and it will be a bit of a bad deal if she does waste your time. You also have to accept that the girl may not actualy like you when you meet and it is hard to take. If your girl is a pro date howether it will stick out a mile. Not all the girls are all bad they are hard women from a hard country.
Actually from whay I've read it's less than 5% that actually get onto the plane and visit.
And, you yourself and how you correspond, as you know RB from Elena's book about having an intro letter that puts you above the crowd, is equally important.
Even though the women are looking for a real mate, etc etc, the man has to have some attraction to them as well; it ain't automatic that there will be a match.
Going there and meeing in person can be the final determination and for others it's the initial determination (of a real match as mutually decided upon).
Thank you for your kind words raging bull. I can see why you have your name, but its just sticks and stones to me I love you all, and I won´t be drawn into childish squabbles.
Yes, there are women who are happy to have a man spend thousands of dollars in travel, in order for her to have a couple of hundred bucks worth of entertainment and gifts.
I think about your question differently. Instead of asking myself, "does she show signs of being dishonest, or simply not serious?" ... I ask myself, "does she sound like someone who is thinking seriously about her future, and wants very much to make a life-long marriage?" Getting to know whether someone is suitable marriage material takes a lot of dialog. Anyone who is serious about it, will have a lot of big questions -- for example, about attitudes towards life, health, religion, career, managing money, etc.
As far as I can tell, scammers and pro daters usually don't work hard enough at 'pretending to be genuine' that they will get into such discussions.
Before making a big trip to meet someone, I would want to have had this kind of serious dialog with her. If for whatever reason our communication doesn't go in this direction, then I perfer not to invest the time and money.
* under 30
* fake tits (generally only professional models will have the inclination and funds to have this done)
* age range 25 years or more, maximum age usually a round number like 50 or 60
* doesn't speak english
* have dated beemer (lol only joking mate ...)
Oh dear I appear to have specified about 90% of the women on anastasia :-)
Other ways to weed them out include:
* as already mentioned - eliminate any possible way they might profit financially from your visit.
* get them to spend some money on you no matter how small an amount, most pro dater will begrudge even sending you a couple of sms's.
Good point about the sms, if a girl can send an sms in English but can not speak english how can she send an sms in English on a mobile that has a Russian language set up on it. I used to send sms via Skype and i would assume that the same can be done in Ukraine/Russia, Howether a girl insisted that her sms was sent using an electronic interpreter and they always arrived in full capital letters. It is interesting to know how she translated my sms from English to Russian almost instantly or do the mobile networks auto translate into the native language ? it is an interesting question.
I also have a problem with women who do not answer my questions. If she is being helped by a professional letter writer, that is a lousy professional letter writer. If she is not, she has no time for you.
Thanks for everyone's input. Durak i think that was pretty sound advice. Is it a "red flag" to get emails that would have to have been sent at 3:00am Ukraine time? Or is it common for emails to get delayed by the server?
Sorry, Centaur. I will not tell you because I don't believe you don't know. Someone else can enlighten you in the miniscule chance that you don't know or you can google it.
hey Bob,, yes their servers are not the best but not always.
3am really isn't something to worry about,,,, if they have their own computer..
but saying that in a lot of places people don't seem to sleep.
why, maybe part work, but it was more of having a good time it seemed to me..
so 24 hour Internet cafes are a great stop off for gossip's and such for them.
so you can ask yourself what you are after, a bit of a good time girl or could we say a bit more of a respectable girl?
if you are using paid letter sites then really you are on your own..
one thing i like about Russians and such, they are straight to the point with words.
people that hide things get very defensive,
so ask, and think about her answers..
i don't blame you asking about such, i would like to know why its 3am she's on line if she didn't have her own computer for that hour, even with such bad servers there..