Hello! I am a guy from Sweden who has communicated with and met several Russian ladies from the Internet. And although I suppose most of them are serious, there is one thing which Westernes must take into consideration regarding Russian culture:
that in Russia, young people do NOT have the same freedom from their parents as do we in Europe or America. Russian parents are very dominant over their children - not to say dictatorial!
A few months ago, I met Oksana Zadiran on this agency - 12255. We decided to see each other here in Sweden over the Summer. So I paid for her plane ticket, visa, bought train tickets for us here in Sweden, and even bought us plane tickets to Paris from here, and booked a hotel there.
And even though I asked her very early on how her parents felt about her going to Sweden to she me, she assured me that they were fine about it.
However, 4 days before her visit, in July, she e-mailed me telling me she "couldnīt" come. So I called her up, angry, and demanded to know why!
She then told me that her father (divorced from her mother) hadnīt known about her trip but had found out, and had given Oksana and her mom an ultimatum: If Oksana goes to Sweden I will not keep supporting you both with $60/month (neither Oksana nor her mom are working).
So that was why Oksana did not visit me this Summer - even though she had her plane tickets and a visa to Sweden in her passport!
I lost somewhere between $700-$1000 depending on how you count it....
SO, EVERYONE, WHEN YOU COMMUNICATE WITH RUSSIAN GIRLS, DO ASK THEM SERIOUSLY IF THEIR PARENTS ARE A PROBLEM! BECAUSE RUSSIAN PARENTS ARE VERY DOMINANT COMPARED TO WESTERN PARENTS!
Ok, thatīs all. But donīt forget to check out Oksanaīs add: 12255.
In it she writes: "decent, reliable, smart, kind, with a good sense of humor for a very serious relationship". Huh!!
I dont beleive that its a problem of parents,this is the classical example of being used. I am 100% sure that you've send her money directly and she never ever bought her tickets.And parents have nothing to do with that.I will delete her ad immediately right now because most probably it was a scam. Can I ask you a question? How long you were corersponding with this girl before sending her money? Did you checked her snail mail address? Did you send her money via WU? Did you ever suggest her to buy all tickets and making her visa via some travel agency , so that she would not get the money and get only tickets?
Hi, me again, to answer your questions... First of all, yes I did send her the money for visa and plane tickets.
I had communicated with her for about 2 months prior to all this, and even though I wanted to send her only about $50 for the visa fee at the Swedish Embassy (and buy her plane tickets here, and only send her the control number so she could retrieve them), she argued that she was in the middle of her exams (in late June) and hadnīt time to visit the Embassy during opening hours (mornings only) because of her exams and studying.
That was why she suggested that I send her all the money so she could pay a travel agency to get the visa for her, so that she would not have to visit the Embassy.
And although I understand full-well that this all seems like a crystal-clear example of a scam, during the time I was communicating with her I also got to know her older sister Tanya quite well. I also spoke with her mother (even though she did not speak English of course), and I just cannot believe that they were all such good actors! (Harder of course for you all to believe, than for me who actually heard all of theirīs voices)..
Now, to quote some of Oksanaīs mails, on July 16 (the day before she was supposed to have come), she wrote:
"I wanted to visit you very much .But I will not come.Sorry that I will not come to you.
The reason is the same.I could not do it:(((Sorry.
I hope that we will continue our relations and you will come to visit
me in this year or next year.i do not want to lose you.
Hope that you will not be angry.Please forgive me.
On 3 August (after spending the last two weeks with her grandparents in the country), she wrote again:
"I just came from the villiage.I feel more good then before.You know I was very upset that I did not come to see you.
But I think we must try to do it later,may be after 2 years.After finishing my study will stay with you forever.
I had to not do it.I thought that I will go to visit you,but I could not.I am so sorry.
Wait your answer,Oksana
PS:do not call me up please.You will lose your money.It will be more
good to communicate by e-mail.I ask you about it.Please do it.
I send you my new photos."
After reading this mail, I called her up again... she told me that she was now working until starting next semester at university on Sept. 18. She also told me a story about a relative of her father who had married a foreigner and moved abroad to his country: "It was not good and she came back with nothing".. "My father cares about me", etc.
So, to sum this message up, this story may very well have been a scam - but on the other hand, it could also be the story of a very young girl, born in 1981 - torn between an aggessive father refusing to let her live her own life, and her own moral beliefs.
And even though we can all think what we want (and I am not even sure what to think myself!), I suppose we will never know what the case was!
The point I would like to make, however, to all of you men in this forum is: Do ask questions about a girlīs parents - many questions - and ask her to explain to you whatever doubts they may have, so that you can give her a message back to them with your reassurances, or whatever...
Also keep in mind, that the sex trade with women from the East is real! All of you who live in Sweden know about the movie "Lilya 4-ever" now showing in Swedish cinemas - about a 16 year old Russian girl tricked into coming to Sweden, and ends up in the sex trade.
The bottom line is: 1. Be concerned about the girlīs parents (more than I was), and 2. Do not send money but buy the plane ticket in your own country and send her only the control number! (That way youīll never have to be wondering).
her own moral beliefs.Yeah. Those permitted her to take your money. And she didnt knew anything about her farther's relative unless she got those money. Sure. I beleive. Men, why you can be that blind sometimes... ;(((((
But you are 100% right with the bottom line.
Born in 1981, makes her 21...... I think many fathers would be worried for their daughter to fly to another country without any knowledge of what is happening. With the large scale Russian Prostitution in foreign countries happening due to Russian girls being duped (tricked) into thinking the guy really wants to marry her or that she is offered work. It is a very real problem and I know of many Aussie women who travel to Europe who are good friends of mine and I worry for them. As Gary said, visit her in her own country and meet ma and pa, it would probably ease the fear. Dictatorial?? I don't think so.
We all want to trust people. It makes us feel good to believe people are honest, and uncomfortable when we think they're not. But sorry henska, this was obviously a scam. While it had some creative aspects (I like the part about visiting the grandparents, a really nice touch), it was just a variation of the scam where you send money for her visit, then something goes wrong and she can't make the trip. Usually it's an illness in the family (mom needs an urgent operation, etc.) or something like that, followed by excuses why she can't see you for a while. You can read about more of such scams at www.womenrussia.com in the Blacklist and Dating Scams areas.
Hello! First of all, "monolith" has a very justified point - except for the fact, that at 21, a person is legally an adult, and please also note that I did ask her about her parents early on (in hopes that there would be no problems. But she lied to me and told me her parents were ok about it all).
So please, "monolith" know that I understand about the sex trade issue - but she should have had her parents "covered" before even beginning any discussions with me!
In response to "gary496", Oksana did not present her visit with her grandparents in the country as a REASON why she couldnīt come. According to her, the reason was her father.
Now, even though I am not still in contact with this Oksana, yesteday I did paste Olgaīs comment into an e-mail which I sent to her e-mail address (uncommented by me).
And although I did not expect to hear back from her - but simply hoped that she would realize what she had done.
However, today, Oksana sent me a mail, which I will now quote and let everyone judge for themselves, in a true spirit of democracy:
"You think I am a scammer?:-)
No,you are wrong.
It is awfull to think that I steal money from you!
Why this Olga think so?She can not prove it! She only THINK that I am
a scam and that is why from your words she decide that I am scam!It is
> I will delete her ad immediately right now because most probably it was a scam .
she can not do it with me!I want to find good husband.I decided not to see him before I will
go for a work and will have my own money not to depend from my father.
I wanted to propose it to you but you seems very angry for me .
Now it does not metter."
To "monolith" again: The last time I spoke with Oksana (some weeks ago), she told me that if even we would make plans for me to visit her in her country (Belarus) at the end of this year, her father would still have slammed his fist into the nearest table, because, according to Oksana: "My father doesnīt want me to marry a foreigner, but a Russian".
In mid-July, when I spoke to her after she told me she "couldnīt" come, she said: "You donīt know my father. Heīs a very hard man, and I donīt like him very much".
So, "monolith", that was why I used the term "dictatorial", since I can see that it bothered you (as it would have me without this information).
henska - I did not say that she said she could come to you because of the visit to the grandparents, I said it was "a nice touch". Scammers throw these little personal stories in there to get you to trust them. Coincidently, a scammer that I was corresponding with also said she went to visit the grandmother in another town. You fell for this girl and you wanted to believe her, and you still want to. That's understandable. She's not upset because you don't believe her, she's upset because she got caught and her ad got removed. If you do a little research on dating scams, you will find that your case is not all that uncommon. The circumstances and stories vary, but there's always the same pattern - first she asks for money for something (plane ticket, internet cafe, taxi to pick your letters, etc.), then something goes wrong (accident, illness, etc.) and she can't continue her correspondence with you. Please don't take my word for it, check into yourself. There's a whole bunch of people making a living doing this, which is really sad because we know that there are many honest girls just looking for a good husband, and this makes it harder for them (and us). You seem like a nice guy and it would be better if this didn't happen to you again. Of course, all this is just my opinion and you or anyone else is free to agree or not. ;)
Ok, gary, I basically agree with everything you say - even though neither of us can claim to know for certain what the truth is in this case.
However, what we can agree on is that Oksana does not have any form of judgement at all. So whether she actually intended to be a scammer or not, her word simply cannot be trusted - and that is what we should go by!
As for her father, it very much could be that he does resent foreigners - just as there are racists and neo-Nazis in our culture who donīt want "other people" to take "our" women!
And since Oksana and her mother depend on this $60 from her father (who is re-married with a new family), if she would have come to visit me and things would not have worked out, she would have been facing a very uncertain future coming back home...
OR - it could also be that in fact she never bought her plane tickets and kept my money... I suppose the only way I could know exactly would be to ask her to send me the tickets by postal mail - or a photo-copy of her visa in her passport.. Otherwise, neither of us can claim to know the truth - whatever it may be.
Henska,i think you have been had,but i have just finished reading all you have said on this forum and its easy to trust,especially such a sweet young lady.or they pretend to be anyway.Now for me i just finish finding out about a lady from odessa...she tryed to scam me.First of all i did trust her but from the get go when i first met her....she was to perfect...her pictures were to professional...her words were just what you want to hear.Lets not be naive guys.the lady i met,her name is mila...and if anyone out there meets up with this so called lady please please beware.let me explain,we wrote for about a month...then she said she wanted to come to see me here in ohio.immediatley the alarm went off in my head,we all know by now how hard it is to come to America...and this ladies says it would be easy because she has freinds at the embassy...now i am lonley like all men that are on here and if you guys saw her picture you would want the chance to,but this was just to good to be true.I wrote the agaency involved,and right away got a response that they had had many comments from clients that she had scammed them out of money..and they to deleted her profile but what i try to say is that if it seems to good and to easy to be true then it usually is...especially if she says she can come here...and get a visa on her own!What i suggest if this happens to a guy as k for all paperwork from travel agency,to document this yourself...and never send her money!!i was shoked and dissapointed but was not stupid...always be aware of that warning light in your head..if it goes off...investigate her thoroughly!She has never responded to my accusations of thievery...so she was in it for the money...olga i ask you to be aware of thius lady...she said her name was svetlana popovich and if you get her on your site do not let her enter...she is good at what she does and obviously had experience...and alot of it!Henska i wish you the best and i think maybe she did not scam you and what you have said may be true,but what do i know.just wanted you to know you are not alone..hang in there.If she were to scam you...i (in my opinion) do not think she would still be in touch..goodluck
Just one more thing. You guys should be aware that some of the girls you may be contacted by are actually the system operators of dating sites, or people working with them. This is a strong possibility if you are contacted by email, as most Russian girls can't afford internet access or email.
Gary please ;-))) operators of dating sites forward messages to girls and dont respond themselves ;-))scams usually are made by girls who have their own e-mail access. Just note: in the very beginning of of this process Oksana suggested to send messages directly at her address. If they did it via our service administrator, we could possibly detect the scammer. We had those cases already and we warned our customers in advance.hats why we usually insist on correspondence via our mailing system-we can track dishonest girls. But men try to save money( I dont blame anybody for that) and e-mail girls directly...and as a result the loose much more.
Olga - Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that your company would be associated with any dishonest dating service operators. However, it is well known that they are out there, and they are either doing the scams themselves or providing email addresses to those who are. I'm sure if you discovered that any of your associated dating services were directly involved in this sort of activity you would cut them off immediately! You provided a valuable tip to all of us, that it is a warning sign if a girl wants to go around your service and contact them directly via their own email address.
Me again... ok, first of all thanks Bob for your sympathy and support.. if anything good can come out of such experiences, it is that we can warn others about it!
In my case though, I will say that Oksana was a scammer mo matter how you look at it (in the sense that she took money from me without giving me what she had promised in return).
Because what person in their right mind would let another person spend all that money, only to then say: "Sorry" (even though I could not have known about her father, and even asked her about him, and she lied to me that he was fine about her trip!).
I will, on the other hand, also make this point: In Russia (and I have been to Russia and have met several Russian girls both in Russia and here in Sweden), many parents do not allow their kids to grow into independent individuals (as is strived for here).
There are parents, who will not allow a grown daughter to travel by train to Moscow by herself (even at 19 or 21), but one parents would rather take off work to accompany her - whereas in my country, parents ENCOURAGE their children to grow into adults!
This does not apply to all Russian families of course, but in my opinion, it does occur to a very great extent. Even several years after a daughter has turned 18, the parents just cannot let go.
So, also consider this, everyone. Do NOT take a girlīs parents "for granted" as you would the parents of a Western girl!
Finally, yes I did buy Oksanaīs postal address and did not communicate with her through this agency (other than the first letters for free).
the very first red flag that should go up is a Russian woman wanting to leave home to travel to a strange country to meet a total stranger so she can travel back home and report her love to her parents. Sorry can't buy this case senario, a serious woman looking for a husband is going to expect you to travel there to her and meet her and her parents.
Wow, this made for some nice reading. This would have made a great public service anouncement or PSA as we call them here in the US. And what is the moral of the story...? hmmm... ummm.... Never anger a skunk? I dunno.. ;-P
Anyway, this this really is/was an excellent example of what not to do. Although I am sorry that henska had to go through this I am glad I got to see this and learn a bit more about the art of the scam. Specially since I seem to have found a genuine woman and we have begun to slowly discuss my visiting her soon. The information in this forum is pure gold.
I read your story with great interest. Meanwhile you understand quite well the mistake you have done. Never send any money to anybody you have never seen!! Or would you send money to me?? :-))
Two months ago I discovered this site. I checked the moldovan part of it and was surprised to see some ladies, I already knew personally before (I ma often in MOldova doing business there). The matter was, that their personal descriptions (made by themselves or via an agency) was sometimes quiote different to the reality. I donīt mean age, height and so on - no, much more the description of profession, character, goals in life and similar. If I have learnt anything during my years in eastern europe, than, that we in western countries have in many cases different meanings to same issues than people from former CIS. And I do not believe in anything, as long as I havnīt seen or checked in reality!
From time to time I start also contacts with ladies of freewebsites from MOldova. In the beginning I hide my well knowledge about Moldova and ask them questions about their country and/or capital. Some of them describe their country correct, some others tell any nonsense to me. So I can select very easy, who is honest and trustful and who is just a waste of time.
Before I was the first time in MOldova I had a contact to a lady there, who had a younger sister. This sister was ill and had to go to hospital. Also the ladies mother was suffering from a car-accident and should have e medical operation. As a stupid foreigner I sent several hundred dollars to Moldova, paying for the medical treatment for her sister. I even once called to the lady, while she was visiting her sister in hospital. And I heard this young girl crying for pain.
The result: soon after the lady started to cheat me, but I keept my promises to her that I will find her all over the world. I went to MOldova, found the lady and her family and forced her for pay back my money. It was impossible for them being poor peasants. So I forgot about the money. Meanwhile we have still good contact to each other. Her mother isnīt operated in hospital yet, because she never had a car-accident. Her younger sister was never in hospital and her crying was made at home to give me the impression of being desperated and having strong pain.