I suggest a thread with all the different permutations of scams, advice and tips. I do not necessarily mean out and out scams becuse there are many variations on this theme.
I have gone to some trouble to explain my situation and what happened. It is very instructional there is tons to be learned there.
Here is a simple lesson. When you finally focus on one woman and decide to go. Under no circumstances immediately stay at her place. If you have got to know her for a year or so through dedicated letter writing and phone calls maybe ok. Otherwise no way. Even if she offers and begs you say no. Rent an apartment and retain your independence. If after a few days it seems fine then move in with her. Only after you have reconoitered the situation.
Have a backup plan. Don't go to see the 'love of your life' wthout knowing where the agency of your choice is and figure out transportation etc.
Get written down on a piece of paper the suitable Russian for a taxi driver to understand and be able to get yourself up, up and away from your 'life love' if it goes sour.
Dealing or not dealing with agencies, grey areas of financial support, email tactics to find out who is wasting your time and so on.
Will somebody clearly spell out the old standby visa/ticket scam. How about the "I've just had a car accident" sketch.
Perhap we can even pursuade Annika to make a contribution. If she is listening this is what we put up with. We stupid vulnerable western idiots, sorry men.
Let us turn the tables and help these new people like ONKINDMAN and SoccerDad avoid some of the pitfalls that we take for granted.
JMO it was a beautiful thing you did with your last lady why don't you share it? A superb table turning bit of strategy. Share buddy.
If you go to a city that is not a huge cosmopolitan city like Moscow maps are difficult to find. Especially in English. Make an effort before you go to get a map. Locate your agency and talk to them first. That I did do.
I have told this story for the purpose of letting others see what can happen. Not to garner sympathy or amuse others. This thread was started in all seriousness. Not to receive brickbats or criticism. The opposite was the intention. To bring in different ideas about the approach of finding a lady from FSU. People were curious about my situation and I let my guard down.
There is no soap opera value here. No comedy, no reason for any input except positive. I stand by all I have said. My story is instructional, as is my present attitude, and so is Annika's post. They all highlight the reality of this situation.
On the one hand we have someone who spent 7 months of his life, countless emails and phone calls not to mention a visit at great expense to find what? A nut. It proves that there is no defense. You try to play by the rules and what happens? You make mistakes and get screwed. For what reason? To learn that is why.
It is not important that it was me on the sharp end it could have been anybody. In most ways I am not that important in this story.
Then on the other hand we have someone like Annika so rightly illustrating what kind of cat is in that bag. Her comment as others in the past is subtly contemptuous. It is personally revealing. Again not just of herself but of the whole process and FSU women, regardless of where he personally lives.
This is largely luck and all you can do is harden your self into a machine to go through this "numbers game".
It may seem I am angry here. I am sorry to have given that impression because actually I am not. I want others to see that this isn't what it seems. I thank God for people like Annika and on ocasion Bagira also because they reveal the truth. Much better than any months long email campaign can do. It says I have contempt for you westerners. Rotate around us. Do it our way. You amuse me. You are like comical children.
Let us not try to put any other face on this please. I have eyes in my head and I can read quite clearly. Her command sems to be adequate to the job. Unfortunately it reveals the truth also. Later guys. I do mean guys.
I think when you have subjects that want to learn and good guy's that are willing to take us Newbies Under there wings. You all ready have helped us avoid pitfalls.
My trip to Moscow I am putting on Hold for A bit longer.
I don't think I am ready even though I have read More post's Than I can keep track of.I simply am not ready. I would rather tell the truth instead of Being a cocky smartass who thinks he knows more than he does... This forum is like a libary of Do's and Dont's and if you guys keep contributing
our hopes and dreams can never die.
Even the wisest of the wise that belong to this group
find some reason to Visit here most often, Why?
What in it for them? Is peace of mind? I don't Think
so, I think it's for many more reasons than that.
Becasue among other reasons, there is a basic natural human need to surround ourselves with other carbon based units...(as long as they think as we do, lol. Otherwise we quickly proceed to chop their heads off, eat their guts raw and piss on their ancestors graves..:)
I appreciate this post. I am interested in getting this right and not wasting my time chasing a scam. If there are common pitfalls or things to know which will help us achieve a real and lasting marriage out of all of this I am all ears. (eyes for these threads)
I am hoping others will contribute but I will anyway. I have shared my own little horror story and I want to go on an expanding on the things I learned. There are several aspects to this. How not to get scammed, how to get there, what to do when you are there and where the hell are you going anyway.
The whole business of how you consider eastern women and their motivations is another story. Example. I know someone who earns very good money and went to FSU many times to see someone. To see what the hell was up with this woman he pretended he had lost his high paying job. She was gone in 2 emails. That was despite swearing love and 4 visits. Get it?? It is a crap shoot.
Let us talk about Moscow being as OKM has brought it up. In another thread I mentioned that I have struck up with a woman from Moscow and she is not like the others I have come into contact from there. Then somebody else said that it was wrong to sterotype the city of Moscow and StP.
Let us examine that and see why I say this. Many will agre with me others will nott hat is ok this is only my opinion, take or ignore it. Moscow per se is not part of the Russian Republic it is a whole other entity.
If you are Russian you can't just up stakes and run off to the bright city lights. You will not be allowed to work and then you won't be able to find anywhere to live. It is also more expensive than the rest of Russia and more European. It is a little bit like Washington DC but without the democracy. If you live in another poorer city or the countryside and you want to make the move you accept a job under a fixed contract. Then at the end of the contract you are free to live in Moscow. You have established yourself.
The Moscovites have always felt superior and will sometimes make fun of anybody of anybody that is from another city as beoing unsophisticated. Funnily enough my friend Sergey was talking to me at length about this today.
They feel they are better than everybody else and definitely enjoy a higher standard of living. From what I have seen the Russians despite all those years of communism or maybe because of it are very class concious.
Therefore it is not uncommon when dealing with women from Moscow to find they have expensive tastes and are demanding. This is a pisser after a couple of times with this you will wonder why you bothered with them. They don't care that you live in Aukland, they will straight out say on the second email I have had enough of this letter writing what time does your flight arrive? They are also of the opinion that Russia is the greatest nation on the face of the earth and maybe you should go and live with them. Yeah right.
St Petersburg is the same. Without the politial thing going on. Anyone can go there.
Now all this is ironic because of the distribution of male to female Maoscow is lacking in males. There are many more females. Outside of Moscow there are a ton of factories that make clothing they employ women. Get it? That means men go somewhere else to find work. That and many other reasons causes there to be many women in Moscow looking for a husband. You would think that they would be a bit more accomodating. That is how it is and I am sure there are a dozen more reasons why this happens.
Therefore you will see in this forum many men avoid Moscow and St Petersburg. They prefer the outer cities, Ekaterinburg, The Urals in general or Siberia. It is less hassle.
Now if you go with a tour group like AFA it is a different story. That is a whole other can of worms.
I have found a woman in Moscow who so far is quite, quite different from what I have experienced in the past. She is very nice and very sensible. She hasn't uttered one daft thing so far. A real find I think and streets ahead of Marina.
Damn you Izzi,
I just got back and you told my story for me . LOL. Yes men that was my story. I had to play it out and see for myself . She was my Oksana. My interpretor /city guide woman of Kyiv who i always spoke of here. She spoke good english and was very clever. I fell for her, i feel because she was the first real woman i could communicate with when there is so much of a language barrier. Put all that cultural difference crap in the toilet please. Women are all the same when it comes down to it . Yes,and all people are all the same also from whatever country. I had to play it out all the way to the end just as she said she was testing me also . I had valuable time, money and effort into her so i had to shed any reasonable doubts that i did indeed have. After all she confessed her love to me and the lazy woman could not even cook me a bloody meal to show some effort . In fact she didn`t do anything except take , take and take.She was always testing me and she even admitted it . She said it was a thing Ukrainian women like to do. I said finally oh yeah? I will conduct a test of my own . Well like Izzi said i told her i lost my job and she lost interest in me in two e-mails after a year long relationship. So men , go figure for yourself. What is that saying , for better or for worse ? Till the day we?...........
This is an excerpt from a leter I got from Moscow on the Hudson.
"Would you move to Russia to her, if she would refuse to go to America? You could buy a nice apartment in Moscow or St. Petersburg and enjoy each other for the rest of your life... Russia is not the worst place in the world, especially compared to any Asian country. Have you been in Moscow or St. Petersburg? You can't judge this great country with great culture, being only in Ural... I've got several letters from English, Italian, American men, who actually lived and traveled extendly in Russia, - all of them love my country! And I would never apply for refugee, because I would never be/act against my homeland as I love it, but dislike its present corrupted government, which had limited human freedoms and rights."
Totally out of touch with reality. All she talks about is Moscow and St Petersburg as "Russia". Totally false. Moscow and StP are NOT Russia. They are pockets that are an ecxception. Ekaterinburg, Chalybinsk, Vladivostick, The Urals, Siberia that is Russia not 2 cities in the west of Russia.
The only ment aht go and ive in Russia are dedicated souls or business men. Western business is creeping into Russia and taking over Russia businesses. It brings English, Italian and American men with it. NATURALLY.
Only last night I listened to public radio talking about Putin and modern Russia by 2 correspondents that lived and worked there. Putin is a despot, a tyrant in the same vein as Stalin without the massive bloodshed. It is not democratic. It is a softer gentler communism. Sure let me just give up my beaches, good job, sunshine 12 months a year and freedoms to go and live in Russia.
She compares Russia to Asia and guives Russia top marks without being there. Let me tell you I have lived and worked in Malaysia. I have also visited Ekaterinburg. NO comparison. Give me asia anytime. They are sophisticated, friendly and the whole place is fascinating. And super cheap. Anyone who has flown Singapore or MAlaysian airlines comes to now what real airline service really is. At least what I saw. I would love to go back.
Why do I bring all this up. 2 reasons. Firstly just because someone has a sheepskin or 2 it doesn't mean a dammn thing they can still be as dumb as a rock. They are just an educated idiot. It is merely an indicator not a guarantee that the person you are dealing with is actually smart.
Secondly she personifies the whole concept of the Moscow woman. Be careful with these chicks.
Sorry JMO, feel free to jump in with more stuff PLEASE. I am a little fed up with this dancing around the edges, let us call these things what they are. Voluntary misconceptions by us western men. We want to find a beautiful younger woman that will be the dream we have always wanted. That we have not found in America or Europe. We look to the FSU and think we have dropped into a white rabbit hole.
Availability and a few nice words do not happiness bring. God knows how many times I have been told how 'clever' I am. Basic feminine ploy - flattery, fake that orgasm baby! You are too big!! All bullshit and we have heard it all before. The FSU women dish it out just the same.
It is absolutely reasonable that Toad went through not 400 women more than that. He had to. He narrowed it down to 6 and it took him around 2 years. He hasn't even got Lena here yet there is still lots of waiting and letters to write and bills to pay. It isn't a 5 minute job. And if you don't have any money don't bother.
Others like Nas have been luckier. It has been faster for them and they sruck paydirt without going bonkers. I thought I had. Probably I will be in clover before long. However I have a really good idea what I am doing and the purpose of this thread is to pound away at the misconceptions and tricks that are going on. Read my story and don't get caught the same way. That way you will truly be smart.
What can I say...I think I'm becoming Izi's 'minion', lol...
Emphasis on the 'real' russia comments.
There are 175,000,000 people in the russian federation.
Hardly over 15% live in or around Moscow or St Pete.
That leaves you with almost 150,000,000 russians, out of which more than half of them are women.
At least 80,000,000 women NOT living in moscow or st pete...
When we first got intimate she told me she did not know how to kiss .She said i had to teach her. Here she is 37 years old with a ten year old son. A woman who does not know how to kiss. Get real .I laughed right in her face. I asked her if she was the virgin mary in disguise .
This will make you laugh Toad, Every man might like to hear this but this might be the all time classic. Jeff , Oh my you are so big down there !!! I don`t know if we can go through with this . I laughed so hard i lost my hard on. LOL. She played completely lost on the sheets acting like she has never done this before. Yea right ?
You know Jeff she says as we are walking down the street. All the women are giving me looks of jealousy because i am with you.
This is a 37 now 38 year old woman with a child.
Beware all you FSU women, JMO carries a big stick !!!!!!! LOL
I have the classic travel/visa scam I will email for anyone interested or I may post the letters on this thread. I was already involved with Larisa when I got the letter, but since she sent me pictures of Rebecca Stamos as her own I figured I had to play!
Did you have that poor girl believing that 25.4mm is 6 inches?