Not all girls are scams. Not all agencies are scams, but most DO use the same technique of spamming you with unsolicited bulk introductory letters. I can guarantee you that most of the big network agencies, especially the American owned ones, about 98% of intro letters were sent by the agency. You will have better luck dealing with the small local agencies. I am giving you advice from my 5 year experience. Sometimes these intro letters are free, sometimes they cost money, it depends on the site. Also, as Todd (whom I have absolutely no sympathy for) points out, many of these girls actually get paid money to write letters and chat with guys. I know it for a fact because my Russian fiance told me all about it, also I have seen it with my own eyes when I was in the agencies several times. But what can you do about? Nothing! Period! Understand? Who are you going to complain to? The manager? The owner? LOL! You think if you complain to 'someone' that all these agencies will change their policies??? Ya right. My advice, just ignore intro letters. Start to focus on 'Replied To' letters... now you will be on the 2nd stage of the game ;)
Also realize that many of the girls have very strict rules, the agency's rigorous control of the sharing of personal information is their highest priority, because they want to make the most money possible from your letters and chats. So, most girls would like to share some info with you, but simply can't, so they won't. The manager (director) is ususally watching them. But nevertheless, you can still find a good honest girl, even with these unscrupulous dishonest business practices. You have to realize that most Ukrainians only make around $100-$200. I am NOT joking. And that's if they can even find a job, especially with the serious economic problems evolving. So, if some girls (mostly the most pretty girls) are offered some pathetic payment to chat with foreign guys, then of course they'll accept the opportunity. But, of course if you are a real person with good intentions and you know how to win a girls heart, then just maybe she will want to take your relations seriously. It's a game, man, learn how to win the game. Otherwise, you are ALWAYS going to lose and nobody is going to feel sorry for you after you waste hundreds or thousands of dollars.
I have been to Ukraine 5 times. I have also lived there for 8 months. I know how the game works. I know how Ukrainians act and think, in general. I finally found my endless love. This is an expensive hobby, period. You are going to pay money to meet Russian or Ukrainian girls, period. If you are cheap, or don't have much money, forget it, go back to True or Match. If you are some jerk off that just wants to have sex with these girls, then I have no advice for you. But if you are an honest guy and are sincere about finding your Russian/Ukrainian jewel, just use some common sense. Learn how to test the girls sincerity, period. If you don't know how to test a girls sincerity, then you are stupid and you will lose lots of money for nothing.
Todd44 and wifebuyer must have the same thing in common.
Todd piece of advice, move to her country promise her a house then knock her up and you will have it all. Then you can fly your pitts s2 model airplance in the back yard, while dreaming of building the one back home. Wow Danny your wireless card must be awesome, or did you create the internet with Al Gore??
Quote: “Combine that with the piss poor attitude (and looks) of Russian men and the significant population gender difference (less men than women)”.
This is straight from the agency text book and precisely what the new kids on the block should not buy into as it gives them false hope and it is completely misleading. There are perhaps a handful of locations, where this may be true but the bigger picture is very different. In near a decade of visiting Russia, Ukraine and a number of other FSU countries, I have noticed the local men folk on the whole to be considerably smarter, better dressed and more “woman smart” than the majority of foreigners who go woman hunting there. Furthermore, they have local language and local “smarts” which places them light years in front of the foreigner in the “women opportunity” stakes.
Russia. (2006) Birth rate, 1.09 males to 1 female. Life expectancy, males average 59 years (approx), females 73 years (approx). Cut the numbers for yourself, unless you are looking to marry one of the many available (Go look in the mini parks between apartment buildings any summer day) Babushkas (59-73) years and older, the singles opportunity is 50/50, or so near to it that it is not worth promotion.
Ukraine: (World fact Book) (2008 est.) At birth: 1.06 male/female. Under 15 years: 1.06 male/female. 15-64 years: 0.92 male/female. 65 years and over: 0.51 male/female. Total population: 0.8375 male/female. Life expectancy at birth: female: 74 years male: 62 years
The best the ratio gets to from the foreign punters perspective is 0.84-1.00 in Ukraine (Russia approx 0.92-1.00) which is accounted for by the earlier death rate of men. I have no axe to grind with anyone but please do not be trapped by this nonsense of the disparity of numbers. It is a mythical claim with it’s origins in the post war days. It is 60+ years since those days and basically two generations.
Quote: “What's a 'scam period'?”
Martin, I suspect it is those times when the ol’ girl won’t put out because she claims to have................when in fact she simply has a crap attitude.
Quote: “THEY GET PAID TO SHOW UP AT SOCIALS”.
LOL, and then some. Tell us something we don't know.
But the fact is that nearly every Russian/Ukrainian guy I have ever seen looked like ass. And if you consider their dress superior to American or Western European dress, then you must have some crappy American or Western European examples. Near every Russian/Ukrainian guy I have come across wears zero hair products or even looked like they bathed in the past 48 hrs. Much less anything better than a plain t shirt, jeans, or cheap button up. No offense intended to those readers who may appear similar to what I just described.
And talk about feeble built men. Built like teenage boys. No muscle, no solidness. Maybe if your definition of attractive men includes looking like teenage boys who never saw the insides of a gym, then your posted assessment may be correct.
All I know is that the time I went to both Ufa, Russia (1 mil pop) and Kyiv, I felt like friggin Tom Cruise with the attention wherever I went be it the airport, the clubs, or walking down the street. And Im not Tom Cruise by any stretch of the imagination.
i guess u should use common sense here: the agency must not charge anything for the first letter to the lady! that's not fair to charge for it, as the girl might not even be interested! then if you an average looking guy and send out say 10 letters to the gals and then get 10 replies within a day- of course it's not real! and the letters are not real! but if you get 4-6 letters within 2-3-4 days and the rest of the girls are not interersted- that looks real to me! i know there are some agencies who go into trouble of really delivering the letters to their female clients, among few: www.kievbeauties.com, www.afa.com www.mordinson.com
Quote: “But the fact is that nearly every Russian/Ukrainian guy I have ever seen looked like ass.”
Did it occur that they may think exactly the same of you?
Quote: “you must have some crappy American or Western European examples”.
Certainly.
Quote: “Near every Russian/Ukrainian guy I have come across wears zero hair products”.
Most wear zero (or near to) hair. Ever wondered why?
Quote : “Maybe if your definition of attractive men”
I don’t find men attractive.
Quote “All I know is that the time I went to both Ufa, Russia (1 mil pop) and Kyiv”.
When you were in Ufa, did you notice the brand shops in the new shopping centre in the central area? Did you notice who was buying? Did you notice the boys wearing the best of the best in the restaurants? There is a goodly number of the UFA boys with their wealth can and do afford much more than most westerners.
Dunromin, you said that the difference between men and women in FSU countries are so near 50-50 that it isn't worth further discussion. But now, you are discussing it. This deserves a new thread.
RB: Yes indeed, good point. It becomes a little tiring when one hears this disparity of numbers thing time and again. I allowed myself to be suckered into providing some facts. Go right ahead and start a thread, you’ll likely have two main arguments put forward. One will be based on factual number and the other will be based on “I saw, she said, I can’t believe, my cousin thinks, you’re an idiot, etc” type of data. Those threads are usually interesting because you quickly see who has and who hasn’t a clue.
todd44.
You are 100% correct...
I'm still in contact with the English speaking guide that i had in Nikolaev...Just 3 weeks ago, a Nikolaev agency approached a young lady to join their agency..The woman would receive a professional photo shoot, make up artist and as many clothes as she wants..BUT, here was the deal that was placed on offer to her...If the agency uses her photos and if she writes letters to men, the agency will help her with writing the letters, because the agency has pre-written and stored letters, but,....BUT, if a man travels to visit her, she MUST MAKE HERSELF AVAILABLE TO MEET HIM..This was of a high importance...And of course, the agency knows that she has a local boyfriend...
The agency is........"I was born to make you happy".....a slavgirl.com, affiliate agency to 'gold' listed, a foreign affair.com....
I don't know if the people in USA, have any idea what goes on in Nikolaev....
I just got told this news on February 28th 2008...
You CANNOT BEAT local knowledge....
Apparently, when the word, 'marriage agency' is used in FSU cities, the locals laugh, for they KNOW...And another truth is many honest and geniune women have stopped using 'marriage agencies', because they are outnumbered by the women who are in it for the money, or, they are not happy with the way the agency works....THIS IS LOCAL NIKOLAEV KNOWDGE....No bullshit!
I have to laugh at Todd44. In the course of less than TWO YEARS this desperate fool has thrown $20,000 PLUS at his lady in Ukraine. The PLUS includes a $12,000 diamond, PLUS a "boob job" (est. $3,000?) PLUS an air conditioner (est. including installation maybe $2,000?) PLUS a water heater (est. $1,000) PLUS dentists visits and foot surgery (est. maybe $2,000 (just a guess)).
So if my estimates above are even close, this guy has thrown FORTY THOUSAND DOLLARS at his Ukrainian lady - not including his trips to visit her and the supposed kickbacks she has received for letters, phone calls, apartment rental etc.
Tell me, did that price include a tattoo saying "SUCKER!" for you, across your forehead?
Do you realize that $200 a month is still considered a good salary in Ukraine? And yet you threw around $1,700 per month at her. And you are surprised she took it and left you looking like a FOOL?
Tell you what. Find a good looking American woman and throw $17,000 (equivalent) per month and see if she doesn't take it, profess to care about you, but in the end leave you as a fool. I bet she will.
During a time I supported my Moldovan lady and her mother (while we were engaged) to the tune of $250 to $300 per month. She wasn't working at the time and that ammount allowed her to pay her living expenses, eat quite well, and take taxis where she wanted to go (while friends and relatives used "little busses"). She picked out her own engagement ring - and while I was prepared to spend a grand or two perhaps (though certainly not $12,000), the ring that SHE insisted on having cost all of $35.00 - you read that right - we went to a jewelry store in Kishinev and she found a ring she liked for $35.00. (Actually she had trouble choosing between two rings at that price so I told her to take BOIH - whish surprised her and pleased her very much - so my total was $70.00. Later I surpised her with a diamond ring from the US - which was vry inexpensive - but I wanted her to wear something more than a couple $35.00 rings so it was MY choice.)
All I have to say is that if you are THAT unaware of the effeect of throwing money at tpeople who come from poorer countries,a dn you are that desperate to get a lady as to throw all rationality to the wind, you get what you deserve.
Once again I mention that the BEST way to meet a real legitimate lady - who will freely share all of her REAL contact information with you (if she likes you) is to go to a Romance Social.
Its true that the ladies are generally listed with agencies, as that is how they find out about the Social in general (There are exceptions, my first significant involvement was with a lady who happen to accompany her FRIEND who was liste with an agency. My lady was not listed. The second lady I was involved with, three years later, WAS listed with an agency but had very few dealing with them. SHe was simply telephoned and asked if she would like to attend a Romance Social - she received NOTHING for attending, save some cake and champaign).
If there is any interet between the two of you - you can see it when you meet her FACE TO FACE. You can share whatever information you want to your heart's content without the intrusion of any agency.
I've attended TWO and had great success - and no horror story like I read about here so often.
Just out of curiousity I went to the Anastasia site and looked up the lady that Todd44 was involved with.
Not surprisingly she is an absolutely stunning, supermodel blonde lady. Somehow that doesn't suprise me at all. Todd was desperate for a top trophy - thought he had one bought and paid for - and she took off on him.
Guys - DON'T GO FOR THE SUPERMODELS!!!
That is probably some of the best advice you will ever get in this forum and ranks right up there with "Don't send money to a girl you have never actually MET!"
You can't capture them and put them on a shelf and expect them to stay there. ESPECIALLY if you are no Brad Pitt, or an otherwise superstar perhaps Hollywood mogul yourself.
The two women I have been involved with are absolute HEADTURNERS in ANY situation - in the US or in Eastern Europe - but they are not blonde supermodels. They are realistically beautiful and absolutely gorgeous - just not potential icons of the stage or screen.
I still think that Todd44 is funny. He thought he had a purchased Supermodel and he even kept the receipt. And now he is furious to find he didn't.
Dunrim, your assessment could be right from your vantage point. but i think we are talking about finding husbands not "ladies men"...muc less playboys, which is what ukrainian women complain about; the new money...the unattainable guys who have too much to chose from.
Are we in the same sheet of music?
Jetmba,
"...Once again I mention that the BEST way to meet a real legitimate lady - who will freely share all of her REAL contact information with you (if she likes you) is to go to a Romance Social."
very realistically articulated. Only tangible opportunities are worthy of consideration!
Gents, you gotta touch 'em and feel 'em to make sure they are real.
And nobody ever actually went to the moon. The famous moon landing footage was shot on a Hollywood lot.
The FBI demolished the World Trade Centers.
And Area 54 is is home for the intergalactic embassy for Alpha Centauri.
You conspiracy theory can believe anything you want.
Its POSSIBLE that a few women are reimbursed for their attendance just as translators are paid. But the VAST MAJORITY of women are NOT PAID. I know quite a few of them very well. They were NEVER offered of paid anything beyond a few refreshments (champaign etc.) they received at the Social itself.