I prefer Bill Gates, Bunker Hunt and Mark Cuban personally. Sorry, but Clintons legacy is a mere footnote. Impressive credentials, lying under oath, he was impeached, but unfortunately not convicted because of a ball less senate that hung out to dry the house managers. Clinton has no gift, especially to anyone that has an ounce of intellect. As for Kerry intellect, I'm still searching, he flip flops more than a dying carp out of water. Though I will give him credit he is smart enough to marry wealthy.
You will never see the big picture. Let's go back, Iran hostages, Carter. Who gave Asylum to Khomeni? France. Who only interferes in world politics? Oh the CIA I'm sure begged France to grant Khomeni asylum. See this is Jihad, and the common denominator is the extremist Muslims, that wants you, me and everyone else dead. To placate these idiots is surely doom for the rest of the world.
As for Communicators, Clinton couldn't shine Reagan or Kennedys shoes. At least Reagan and Kennedy made America proud to be Americans, instead of the latter who wants to put all the worlds problems and blame at the foot of the US.
Just read in the news today, U.S. military in Iraq has been buying "independent correspondent" space in popular Iraqi newspapers to publish propaganda articles, which promote the deeds of American forces in that country. American soldiers write the articles, which are then translated and posted under fake "independent correspondent" names.
As a libertarian, is this your version of freedom of speech? is this what our founding fathers had in mind when they were drafting the constitution? or perhaps the constitution applies only to internal American affairs, but outside the country the American military as guided by the republican controlled pentagon can do whatever the hell they wish.
I am not saying this act reflects the ethical standards of Americans, but what do you think the world thinks when every other day a new scandal pops up? The evil acts of Rumsfeld's military are being exposed in broad daylight and the result harms more than anything else the goal of diminishing the risk to Americans.
I see Clinton as a president who did great things for his country. The economy was at its best ever, we had surpluses instead of deficits, jobs were plentiful and very well paying, and America's military power was not the sole reason our allies and friends respected us. WJC worked for the interests of the middle class, united the country, and tried to build a future for all Americans.
Bush deceived us with his "compassionate conservative" crap, myself included, re-distributed wealth from the middle class to the 2% of the wealthiest Americans by giving huge, unjustified tax cuts to the latter, made the government bigger than ever, made the deficits (which the little guy will end up paying) bigger than ever, sold off our manufacturing and technology industries to the Chinese, made it impossible for blue collar workers and many other hard working Americans to dream of being part of the middle class, made America as a whole be perceived as arrogant and inconsiderate by even our friends and allies.
Reagan has been given credit for finishing the Soviet Union; however, his CIA helped thugs take over that country and indirectly helped creating the oppressive Russian state of our days. Also, since you mentioned Khomeini, don't forget Irangate either:) very typical of republican politicians, the money in their pocket is the only country they believe in:)
Jihad is not going to be defeated by weapons and cheap military propaganda. Rather a radical change in America's foreign policy is essential. I will not discuss this her or now. Let's say we have different points of view.
We tolerate sexual deviancy and liars in the highest office in America? Clinton = lie after lie after lie. How many women besides the ones we know about were accosted by "Wild Bill"? When did this man ever tell the truth? What a disgusting example of manhood. Maybe he was high on cocaine,even if he never inhaled pot. Could not keep his dick in his pants or render honor to his woman. WHat the hell is a man if he cannot live as a light to his family, ( not to mention his constituency)and be a man with higher standards and principles? WHat kind of message did all of this give to Chelsea Clinton? Did she get to learn the particular nuances of oral sex from accounts of Monica? Did she see the blue dress with his sickass spum on it? How does she equate her own conception in life? Does she advocate monogamy or is she just as valueless and corrupt as her penis brained father? This kind of selfish crap is learned at home and spread like sickness in epidemic proportions.I can`t believe anyone would render homage to this chronicled liar--to the people--to his wife--to the senate and congress--to himself even. Roger was chuckling when he counted his cocaine dollars from Mena,Arkansas cocaine money while Bill purported that he knew nothing of what was going on his own backyard. Of all these men--Carter is active in Habitat for Humanity,building homes for the poor. Over 70 and still swings a hammer for the poor. WHat a weird coincidence that Reagan was only one day in office when the Iran hostages were finally released. Talk about the "Great Plagiarist"!! Takes credit for Carter`s negotiations. I do not know any Californians who were around in his days as governor who would rate him any higher than Arnold Scwarzenegger. He shut down many programs granted in the constitution to"promote the general welfare" ( of the citizenry) of the people in his massive slimming of government. I admit he created jobs-but at this time they were 4 dollar an hour jobs. This was at the sacrifice of daycare and headstart programs also,which were started by Lyndon Johnson. ANd his second in command--the first of the royal American Monarchy--well we know well about aid to contras,and the buddying up to our well known terrorist factions-bin Laden and Hussein. Talk about working both sides of the fence!!
I also wanted to say that I am not a militarist,but I am damn proud of the men I know from the Air Force here-who will scramble in a moments notice to quash domestic terrorism. This elite society of men are not war mongers,but they will covertly stamp out terror at home. This is not something that is discussed by the media very much. In AMerica we have all peoples of the world--and this means the radical right and extreme left also. When we write of terror,we cannot forget the homegrown variety,and the groups that espouse hate. They are in their way every bit as bad,and angry,as any foreign born Jihad-ist.
Nor, You call it, we are having FUN that we are in so much debt to China by the way. I don`t think so. This country gives away so much damn money to countrys all over this planet and most of our citizens are quit sick of this.Bailout this gov`t. bailout that gov`t.and all we get back is ridaculed and blamed.Take care of yourselfs. It does not help our people in anyway,many people struggle to make a living.Many of us don`t like what our gov`t does all the time.YOU ALL better help yourself,oneday were not going to be. Then you can bitch about CHINA. The USA is a great country, but we can use some help too!!!
Military does whatever they're ordered to do. If they're told to shoot someone, they'll do so, no questions asked. They're getting paid to do so. All important military decisions are taken by the head of the defense department. Through the chain of command, tactical decisions are funneled to the military in the field who are just executing. No air force pilot ever asked whether shooting a plane down is a good decision for the country and the people. They just execute the order; they're not thinking whether the order is in the interest of the country and the people. That's the way it is in every country. This is the military's job, they are getting paid to do it, and most of them do it right. Military employees are not any different or more valuable or more patriotic than other citizens who work and pay taxes, so the military can get paid to feed their families, school their kids and provide rich health benefits to their dependents. Praising the military and pretending that anyone who doesn't do so is a potential enemy to the country only demonstrates hypocrisy. Congratulations you said the right things, rightfully you're awarded the seal of the patriot, you proved your “patriotism”, you fit in.
I don't care what my President does in his bedroom. I find it very cheap to have nothing better to do in one's life than bothering about knowing all the juicy details of politicians’ private sex lives. I could care less if Bill Clinton committed adultery as long as America was in such great shape under his leadership. It is understandable that American society in the heartland and the south, where most of the members of this forumreside, is a puritan society with deeply conservative social value systems. This is exactly where the GOP finds fertile ground to build the foundation of their conservative political system.
There are people in the Deep South, in Alabama, Mississippi, South Carolina, Texas who declare that the south is currently under occupation, that Jefferson Davis never admitted defeat, the confederate army surrendered, not the government. They even go to the extent to abuse the legacy of such a military figure as General Robert Lee. These are American patriots who raise the flag with the stars and bars outside their homes and even on the top of the state house. We all know the feelings of the south about the yanks in the northeast and the phobia about liberal values. It may sound a myth to people who live outside the U.S.A. or have not been around the country, but this is the undeniable truth. The vast pockets of conservatism in the south and central Plaines of the United States is the blood life of the Republican Party. What feeds and preserves the GOP monster is the suspicion, jealousy and even hatred about the more developed, and traditionally liberal coastal regions of the country, the various phobias about homosexuals and foreigners. If it wasn't for the leftovers of the old south, the "daughters of the confederacy" and so many others, who preserve the conservative ideology out of suspicion and deep, chronic complexes, the GOP would be doomed to a popular vote of 25% at the very best.
Spirit: The Iranians get radio and television too. They were well aware of our electoral system, how it works and what day the next president is inaugurated. The entire world was putting pressure on Khomeini to release the hostages, and they had long since stopped being an asset to him - they were becoming a liability. Having gone through Carter's botched "rescue attempt" and knowing full well that the unresolved hostage crisis was a major factor in Carter losing the election to Reagan, Khomeini was NOT going to release the hostages until the NEXT president was sworn in.
The hostages were not released BECAUSE of Carter's efforts, but INSPITE of them.
Bill Clinton did great things for this country????
Bill Clinton was lucky enough to inheret an economy made ripe for growth by the economic (controversial) economic policies of Reagan and Bush Sr. The stage was set and Clinton could do little but screw it up - which (of course) he did by passing the LARGEST TAX INCREASE IN HISTORY.
Economies improve and decline over long time spans. Changes in tax rates, capital expenditure etc. doesn't change an economy overnight. It takes years to build plants and put them into production or make anyother changes of any significants. It amuses me when shortsighted people give a president credit or blame for whatever economy he has during his first few months in office. A presidents policies do not effect an economy for years.
We WOULD have paid off the deficit due to the strong economy that Clinton inherited. But his HUGE TAX INCREASE in essence GUTTED it so badly that we were already in recession by the time George W. took office.
Clinton made a mess of our economy, our foreign affairs and any respect anyone ever had for the moral fiber of the presidency.
Despite his misgivings, and speaking as a foreigner, Clinton came across as a great ambassador for the US. Perhaps he might not have been a good president, but as an ambassador he was excellent and even the Monica affair only served to prove that he is human, unlike the robot the US have in the White House at the moment.
I managed a hotel in Tacoma Washington in 1985. I knew that a man who resided there specialized in finding very young,and somewhat mentally handicapped children to take back to his room. One day I overheard the man propositioning the kid in his room. I knocked-nobody answered. I put my shoulder to the door,and when the door swung open,dude had this poor kid fondling him. In a rage,I ordered him to get his stuff,and get out of the building. He did so,and I found the boy`s parents and sent him home. The man called the cops,and they came to arrest me for breaking down his door. It was a big argument with the cop-who told me the same thing as said above " Hey-if he has paid his rent,I don`t care who he butt-f**** in his room.Leave what lies behind closed doors alone" He proceeded to tell me that the man would be filing charges against me,and that I was going to be arrested for breaking and entering. It brought down a lot of nasty business,and I was in danger of losing my job...........behind closed doors.I had to retell this story too many times to too many people. I was abused as a young man also,and grew to hate the sexual innuendo and penis-brained thinking of men. To me it is vile and repulsive,and confusing to say the least. Sex is Love? Love is Sex? 2 slugs in the act are in love? My dad screwing women behind my mama`s back while leaving me in the car to wait was love? No-that leave behind closed doors what goes on behind close doors was also a closed subject until I was 35 years old. When I finally realized I was angry at rapos,sodomists,and abusive men,my voice found strength,and the "unmentionable" silence left me.My experience was horrific,and I scrutinize men for their values, their sense of honor and decency. I have no trouble jumping into the middle of a fracas which was started by a man who wields his dick in anybody`s face. I will show him what the other side of that "root" looks like. Even to think that I was conceived from a man who was still wearing the smell of another woman when he went to my mama is unthinkable. I disbelieve that what we know--we are. We have choices -and this country,and specifically for me-the children,are affected by these choices also. I care--maybe because few do. I will do anything in my power--lay down my life also,so that a little kid does not have to suffer a lifetime agony. It is what has always separated me from most of the boys. And this understanding of the evil that men ( in particular ) do,is appreciated by most women,because many of them have--ironically--the same story as me,and have squatted on their silence. Maybe some of this rage and silence is why this generation of women in the US has turned so many male eyes to the east. Even if you cannot put a finger on the problem,it is obvious that much has changed. One of these posts described American men as "puritanical". It is just common sense ( uncommon at best. SOmetimes doors have to be smashed down. SOmetimes men need to challenge other men. You,I,and nobody else invented sex. It was not patented ,registered and trademarked. It has no exclusivity in aberrant privilege. If you ever care for someone,you will protect them from emotional fallout. Clinton had bodyguards that cleared the way for his " executive privileges". WHen an outside video monitor caught him going to Jennifer Flowers home,these men confiscated the recording. WHy? It was not a late-night affair--who could prove it by a blurry night time videotape? People contributed to his sexual flamboyance by arranging dates with women behind his wife`s back. Is this what men do for each other? I want to know. Are we really a society of men who enable other men to gratify themselves within a circle of secrecy? Is this just part of the job description for being a man? Prove you are a man by performing feats of sexual conquest. Even a gay man can cause conception in a woman. I grant that a man and his wife do have the right to privacy--even if he is exercising his fetish of having sex with her ears. But we all know where to draw the line--even if we say differently.
Wtrav, where do you come up with this crap. The CIA helped during Reagans years to put in the current leader in Russia, Putin. What a crock. In 1991 there was a coup attempt against Gorbachev. I think Reagan had been gone for a couple of years(sarcasm). In that attempt by disgruntled former communists who was trying to seize back power, Yeltsin lead the opposition to the coup. This gave Yeltsin politcal ammo both in Russia and around the world. Yeltsin relinquished power in 1999 after an attempted impeachment and hand selected Putin to be his successor. If I recall correctly, but since I don't have your intellectual capabilities, Putin was Yeltsins Prime Minister. Yeltsin and Gorbachev were political enemies. Funny how you blame the CIA for everything. Also Gorbachev was Selected to lead the Party by Yuri Andropov, yeah, there was a bunch of CIA influence there, since Andropov had long been the head of the KGB.
Here is some food for thought from your own heroes.
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them.
That is our bottom line."
President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998
"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear.
We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998
"Iraq is a long way from USA but, what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998
"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998
"We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S.Constitution and Laws, to take necessary actions, (including, if appropriate,
air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction
Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998
"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998
Hussein has .. chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999
"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs
continue a pace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, December 5, 2001
This one is my favorite, and pretty much shoots a hole in the "Bush Lied Philosophy of the liberals. From one of their own who had access to this information under another administration. So Tell me who lied and who passed on bad intelligence to who?
We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
Underscore the word "Know" Gore would have never had access to such intelligence under the Bush Administration. This he acquired under the Clinton Administration.
Spirit, excellent post, but Morals, decency and honor are not recognized the by the intellectual enlightened. Those are shortcomings of real men. When we lower our standards and blur the lines of decency, that is when our country becomes weak.
I prefer to draw the line at the other person's closed door either a home door or a hotel door. As long as people don't violate the laws and don't do anything unethical, they should be left to do what they wish. I define unethical anything that would negatively affect others. You can buttf*** anyone you want behind closed doors as long as both parties are cooperating at their will and none else is directly affected. Kids do not have the maturity to make choices that may affect the rest of their lives. The example provided above speaks of an unethical man trying to take advantage of a powerless kid and another ethical man doing the right thing. The incident with the police speaks of loopholes in the legal system, which sometimes limits the effectiveness of law enforcement. I personally find gays disgusting, but that is my personal bias. I don’t let my personal bias guide my actions.
Bill Clinton did something unethical not because he screwed up, while he was a president, a fat adult chick who wanted to be screwed but rather because he cheated on his wife. However, this is between his wife and him and it's not my own business. I laugh at the economic analysis that I read above about Reagan and Bush deserving credit for the economic expansion of the 90's. Reagan has consistently been ridiculed by economists for his unique Reaganomics (soup made by a number of randomly selected ingredients in the hope the output is edible). During his administration inflation neared third world levels and the deficits and debts did so as well. As far as Bush senior is concerned, the anecdote "it's the economy stupid" marked his "legacy". He proudly continued the lame work of his predecessor.
Bush junior ... what can I say .. you are all so sensitive about ethics regarding a president's background. The guy was an alcoholic, he cheated his own country by avoiding the service when his country needed him, he lied about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, he dragged his country in a war which has created so many problems for the country. I can clearly see why ethical, patriotic, Americans would support this president. It's all about hypocrisy and double standards. When the shit hits the fan and the deficits directly affect everyone's pocket that you will stop intentionally being blind folded. Until then enjoy this great President and his wonderful feats.
nasfy, you're so good on this micro stuff, I'm impressed. I said that Reagan's CIA laid the ground for what Russia has become in our days. Do you understand?
I can run a search in cyberspace and find all kinds of stupid things republicans have said in the past, so what?
This discussion is pointless. What is interesting to observe, however, is how many conservatives are on this forum looking for Russian women. Isn't that something? We know for a fact, the country is approximately split in half between conservatives and liberals (speaking in general terms). How come so many conservos are disproportionately out of luck with those great American women? you're patriotic, you value values:) you have great backgrounds in the military and in all things American women are dieing for. I am just wondering why. Food for thought for you. Cheers!
What I love about you Wtrav02 is when you have no rational explanation, you come up with some useless point like, look at all the conservatives looking for women in the FSU. You're statements are inflammatory, you back it up without fact, then when you are presented with fact, you change the direction of the subject. Besides me, who else is conservative here?
As for cheating his country, William Clinton didn't even serve. He was and is a proven draft dodger. All liberals want to do is lower the bar on ethics so their shortcomings don't look as bad to others.
Also, as far as inflation and defecits are concerned. Only congress has the power with money. As in Reagans era one thing was proven. With tax cuts federal revenues quadrupled, the problem being is an out of control congress went on a rampage with reckless spending. That created the problems with defecits.
I guess only enlightened Libs look for women in the FSU because all the women in America are rebel flag waving, gun toting, right to lifers, daughters of the confederacy, who just want to sit home and bake cookies and clean their guns. Please!!!!!!!!!!!
nasfy, I'm just saying what I believe and don't care if you like it or not. If what I said is inflammatory, what was your persistence to call me a non-citizen and your outright insults that I support terrorism:) because I dared to criticize the duo of disaster, Bush and his buddy the Rumsfeld.
You talk about facts? Listen to yourself: "All liberals want to do is lower the bar on ethics so their shortcomings don't look as bad to others". Do you have any facts to back this allegation? Nixon was a republican president, wasn't he? he was ousted from the white house wasn't he? in one of the biggest political scandals in U.S. history. Your idol, the Reagan, and his buddy the great patriot, the Oliver North, didn’t they sell weapons to Iran against U.S. laws?
You want to talk about corruption more recently? Take a close look at what's going on with the new tax cuts the powerful lobbies (say Wall Street for example) ordered their servant, the Bush, to pass. The Bushy is scrambling to satisfy his sponsors and financial supporters while the deficits are soaring and the chairman of the Fed warns that drastic cuts in Social Security and Medicare are urgently needed. So, your beloved president cuts the taxes of those who are worth hundreds of millions and to make up for the deficit he cuts the income and pension of the little guy and the senior citizens. Is that a re-distribution of income or what? has this become a country governed by the lobbies that throw money to the GOP or what?
It bothers you because I speak the truth. Either you don't understand that you are defending those who are against you or you have such complex with the "liberals" that you prefer to burn your own house as long as the liberals don't have their way.
By the way, you must realize that calling someone a liberal is not the insult that you think it is. You can call me liberal all day and it sounds in my ears ocean waves in paradise beach:)