You forgot to mention a few things that Simple Simon had quoted previously:
steelemanm 05.01.2006 7:53:24
Hey I am Simon from Australia.
I posted a thread a while back and thanks for the help people Vanechka especially.
I have been here in odessa for 3 days and I can confirm one thing. The women here are Incredible.
I am waiting for my lady to come back from christmas with her parents so I tried one of Adam and Evas introduction (I am just trying to hedge my bets). Not good. The bitch was rude, arrogant and after one hour I just paid the restaurant bill and left.
They all dress so nice and posh here but the country is poor man. The houses are piss poor and the roads are worse.
I am waiting 2 more days for my beautiful lady to come back and then hopefully we all live happy ever after.
But we are forgetting the Ausies idea of fore play.."Brace your self Shelah" I wish I hadn't started to read this thread,but I like a good horror story.Seems it's swings & round-a-bouts.Bottom line,as has already been pointed out..we are going to be scammed,if we let our trousers do the thinking.
I am only a novice,this is true,but the lady I am in contact with,to my mind has asked some very savvy Q's.Not what I would expect a scammer to ask.But I realise I might still fall on my butt.Watch this space.
The people who have found,"what they're looking for",still enstill hope in those of us that aint yet.Romantic fool?..maybe.But I could go up town & get rumbled just as easy by a tart in a mini skirt,who talks the same lingo....Point being..never know till you try.Sooner or later,a diamond shines through.
Okay, my two cents. In my opinion, I think that some members here are expecting a lot more than what they are willing to give in these "relationships". I don't mean money, I mean honesty. How can you expect these women to have any kind of trust in you? They are not foolish, as Felicedate has stated. I may be mistaken, but throughout all of the recent rants, I don't remember anything being about your future wife.
If I wanted to get laid, I'd go to a club. Here.
I thought that was the purpose here, to find the woman you want to spend the rest of your life with. Not one night. I'm going over next month. To see one woman. I have the confidence that comes from knowing that I've been honest with her all along. I don't blow smoke up her dress, I'm truthfull regarding my home, salary, children and anything she may ask about. I have no reason to believe she has been anything but honest with me.
I think that if you continue to treat these women as if you were picking them off of a shelf at a market, your results will never change. In Oz or elsewhere. Flame on, asbestos underwear ;).
I agree with your first points. But, if anything he had too few girls lined up, not too many. The number of girls you meet has little bearing on how serious the guy is. In fact, if anything meeting many girls shows that the guy is INDEED SERIOUS in finding the right woman for himself.
Writing letters is fine, but it just gets you past the first hurdle of extremely incompatible women. You can write hundreds of letter to even a legitimate girl, spend thousands dollars and travel thousands of miles to see her, and she will turn you down. It happened to me.
If you are from UK I envy you the 2-3 hour flight to St. Petersburg, for example. You can see just one girl, and if it doesn't work out come back in two months. People who travel from other continents have a more difficult time.
For some people, such trips are once a year vacations, and I simply cannot bet everything on one number again. I intend to see as many girls as I can, whether by prearranged dates or socials. To me you have to get the exposure to find the girl who is really serious about love and marriage.
On the intellect of the Ukrainian female. If you did travel that far just to spend one day with them, what credibility did you give them? Sure you might have told them you are too busy to spend more than one day with them, but you went through an agency for a single date. Pleeeeeaaaaaaaaaaasssssssssse!
Do you think for a minute they bought that line? First mistake, you weren't honest with them about seeing other women. I told my fiance early on I was writing to three other women. I was also honest enough to tell her if I came to visit her, I would spend all my time with her. If we wouldn't have hit it off, well as you say steeleman, there are plenty of women there. A healthy man in Kiev can suffer whiplash just walking down the street. As I said before, the one uncanny trait women from Ukraine have is that they can see through bullshit, maybe that is why many of them are such good scammers.
Yes I made a trip 5500 miles to see just one woman. One that had the same life experiences that I had. One that had a similar vision and outlook on life. One that I had spoken to at least one hundred times on the phone before I arrived. One that I took the time to learn about her world and culture. One that will be living in Indiana come February 10th. One with God's blessings will become my wife in March. This could fail at any moment,
and I am smart enough to realize that. By knowing that this potential exists gives us the ability to prepare for anything that comes our way.
The three that didn't show up, did you have their phone numbers to call them and ask why they didn't show up? Knowledge is power, and if I had traveled 5000 miles to meet a women, I surely would be curious why they didn't show up. Just to chalk it up to experience. Oh well, no big deal. You want to ramble one that the agency owes you something, hell you should have prepared, many of us here would have gladly shared what trains to catch, what planes to catch, their timetables etc. That is what this forum is for, with the occasional flaming episodes to make it interesting.
You write very well, but in case anyone forgets, we (the western men seeking FSU brides) are that SHEEP that people like you, felice, shear to make their money!
OF COURSE he resents "smart asses" who don't want to use the full range of overpriced agency services - those who just want to buy information and meet the girls in person. OF COURSE, these agenies will be less than fully happy or helpful, and as felice eludes to in his letter - will give "nuetral" advice (more like nagative advice) in essence sabotaging the efforts of the less-than-fully-willing-to-be-sheared-sheep.
I don't deny for a second that agencies have their purpose. Without them we would have no information on the women that we seek. And they certainly have a claim for compensation for that. But your entire letter here can be distilled down to a few simple ideas, namely "grease the palm of your local agency or prepare for the worst".
Most agencies are MORE than willing to hold your hand - so long as they get their cut over and over. THEY LOVE IT when you spend $85 to send flowers costing $2 at the local market or when you spend $105 to have a $5 bottle of wine thrown in as well. THEY LOVE to have you pay $20 an hour for an interpreter - when the typical months wage in their country is $150. (Not bad to make a months pay in seven and a half hours).
Felice isn't here giving us helpful "ADVICE" (maybe I should say "warnings") because he LIKES US - he's here promoting his business. OF COURSE to him the Australian guy failed because he didn't grossly overpay the agency - not becasue the guy was a middle aged man writing to incredible pictures of 20 year old women.
And through our insecurities - we lap up what felice says, without considering his motivation.
Well, one of these (Irina Starozhuk, ID 53206) is 20 years old and sheís looking for a prince up to 60. If you see that in a profile, you know everything you need to know (although I admit sometimes itís tempting to ignore the telltale signs).
That said, I've come to the same conclusions as steeleman: (1) I prefer to meet them on the spot (bars, coffee shops, street) rather than through this whole internet thing. May not be for everyone, but it worked better for me. I met a woman this way with whom Iím now writing and planning for her visit. (2) I prefer countries like Estonia, Latvia, Finland, Sweden, Hungary... Itís not as easy to get their attention, but then you have peace of mind they want you for you, and the culture shock is much smaller. Also, Iím very picky about looks and the way they dress. They donít have to be top models, but they have to have ďsomethingĒ, and we all know pictures can be a bad guide.
Iím not saying this is for everyone. You need to be able to invest more time on the ground. There will be more pick and miss in terms of personality and other characteristics youíre looking for. It puts more demands on your social skills to meet random strangers. Itís just what Iíve drifted towards and felt is the best way for me.
Ah, especially Martin_UK, a clown who continues to defend this site and others!
I think I've got that right, I wouldn't like to misquote anybody, OK, is there one person present that can remind me when I've ever defended the fiance.com site or indeed any other site?
Steeleman didn't come here to warn others, he came here to shout, as he titled this thread, 'it's all a scam', the operative word being 'all'. Now I've been around such forums as this for more than 5 years and I cannot recall, ever, I say ever, hearing of a guy who went to meet 4 ladies and all 4 were no-shows and/or professionals daters.
Clearly there was something amiss in the selection method adopted but hey, try to help the guy, suggest that he revisit and/or amend his selection method and what happens, he starts sounding off, name calling, bad language, racist comments against the Yanks and the Brits but hey, he will claim, he was the victim, he didn't do anything wrong.
But he did do something wrong, he selected ladies wrongly. Now behind the front and big mouth he is putting up he knows he f*cked up and he knows, more or less, at which stage in the communication with each lady he f*cked up whereas she asked for money, which he would send her, or he ignored another warning sign, a red flag such as a 20 year old advertising for a guy until 60.
I can talk about this because I've made mistake(s) in the past, I'm sure we may have all made the odd bad call and what did we do about it, we sat down, realised where we had erred, we learnt from it and we moved on. Simon, well he's going to keep shouting that it's all a scam and he's never going to learn, he'll make the same mistakes next time, and the time after, and the time after that.
Not that you are one for listening, I started dating FSU ladies around 1998, I met my wife 2 years ago and she'll be coming to UK in the not too distant future once we have completed a project, and yes, we shall be going out to dinner together, in precisely 8 days time from today.
During the meantime I can idle my time frequenting forums whilst trying to help others such as the guy who recently wasn't aware that he needed Russian transit visas etc. Or the guy that is taking a chance on writing to ladies from Lugansk or indeed the guy that travels to Odessa only to be blown out or be professionally dated. Some people care to listen to advice, some people don't!
Really Steeleman, well on your current form it ain't happening for you, is it?
Who said 8 years to find a woman, I started in late 1998 and met the one in early 2004. I dated many ladies during the interim, not suitable, attitude problems or I made mistake(s). But I learn't, what's your excuse?
And ..... because I didn't rush into anything, after all marriage is not a race, and having dated the number of ladies that I have, I know what to look for and what not to look for and I know that, having taken my time, I have found someone truly special!
Jet, what a surprise! If you'd read more carefully through other threads you would know that for several months already I have nothing to defend in this industry as I do belong to all this only theoretically. The only thing that makes me write to this forum is boredome late in the night when I being an owl already have nothing to do but still can't sleep.
You know, very rarely in my life I was telling something contraditing my inner feelings and principles. If I would have the basis to open a thread "It is all a scam" I would open it. All that I am telling are just my own observations and meditations based upon greater experience than anyone of you has. It is up to you to listen to this or not.
You became a stingy guy at once? Overpriced services? I am not telling about the fiance.com delivery service, it has been discussed amny times, it is very expencive but as soon as it is used - it means the quality/price proportion is still interesting for very many people. LIving in a democratic world one may chose from many delivery services. With travel arrangements most often he can't. All the agency's prices are almost the same for arranging a personal tour. Well,wanna save - save, like Steelman for example. An agency won't get 300-380$, you won't get attentive service, private guide through an unknown country, ensurance from girl don't show up. Stop speaking about the average salary here! It sounds like you are a communist! An average salary won't be enough for me just to pay the phone bill every month. Not you decide how much people want to earn and are trying to earn.
Do you know that "an average US salary" is around 1500$? Know many people who manage to survive o this?
If you are willing to pay 2$ an hour for a student interpreter - you are free to do it. But know that you are humiliating this interpreter paying a white person with good education like a Zulu barbarian in Africa, and you are humiliating yourself by this as well. I don't know where you took 20$/hour price(by the way as 85/2 flowers prices). It is good to exagerate things trying to be conveincing, yes? I charged 7$ an hour for an interpreter and all the 7 were given to the interpreter because it is a normal price. You didn't work as an interpreter and I did. I know what it is like to follow people 8-14 hours a day whenever they may go nad whatever they may do. Its a very hard work with no time for yourself at all.
By the way I am probably a very freaky businesman trying promoting his business by calling his prospective customers "jerks".:-)
I did warn you mate !!!!! But well done for coming back here and saying the truth ..To the rest of you he only said it how it is... Its fact and what I have been trying to say all along..
So to the owners of this website who keep banning my IP. I stick my middle finger up to you. YOu dont like people knowing the facts... keep banning people , and corrupting... If this go my way western men will not come back to Ukraine and you will all go out of business...
You can EAASILY find services that charge $20 for an interpreters services for those foolish enough to pay it. Personally I have NEVER hired an interpreter but "ve seen the prces. And if you use the interpreters services in a three way telephone call, its even higher.
Regarding the flowers - you can easily pay $85 to have just three roses delivered to your lady. Those roses are usually of an inferior quality to those available in the local market (petals falling off etc.) for only a couple dollars.
I HAVE sent roses this way (not using fiance.com service) and my lady was appalled at how terrible the flowers were (yes, I complained to the company). She insisted on knowing how much I paid and begged me never to send her flowers that way again. If I eve have such a notion, she said - just send HER the money and she promised to buy herself flowers, wine, chocolate and she could take herself and her mother out for dinner - for the same price I paid for the three roses ALONE!
Face it - many agencies count on the deep pockets of western men, and they scam us way before the women have even had the opportunity. For us to have to pass the agency "$300 - $380" just for cooperation is highway robbery.
And by the way I think the average salary in the USA is around $36,000 per year or around $3,000 per month. Not the $1,500 you mention. And yes, a person can live and pay the phone bill on $3,000 per month, pretty easily.