New.....such a vivid imagination you have.....lots of thoughts for someone who has 5-6 messages
under your belt. Me thinks you are spending too much time looking at her picture and don't take literally Dun's wanker too heart too soon.........You making 'fake' profiles shows you are being sneaky from the start, why not just be upfront and honest with everything? It's a long road.....
By the way, getting tons of letters is the norm and there are beautiful ladies everywhere. Hope you are communications with other girls....are they sincere or not, that is the question we all ask
ourselves and visiting is only way to answer it. Good luck!!!!!!!!!
Didn't bring all the facts so I wasn't that clear I think. I was making fake profiles to begin with which I've later on edited to the what I am in reality. Didn't mean to be sneaky or deceive anyone or hurt a gal's feelings.
For that particular site though, she was the one who seemed to be more interested in me and send a second letter (i.e. other than the introductory one). I could only read the first sentence, but I was very curious to see what was in it so I had to pay some money to get credits and so on and so forth.
I mean she definitely drew my attention and from there on we sort of established regular comms, but nothing so far suggests something nasty that I have been reading around all the while (e.g. money for her mother who's ill and all that crap).
She also asked in the 3rd letter for my picture which I've added to my profile, so I'm not a con man anymore - I'm part of this game but I'm still a newbie hence my letter here.
Needless to say that I've got a ton of letters ever since I've placed my face in the profile. That's about it more - thanks again for the input and any more of your thoughts would be very much appreciated indeed.
Don’t be too sure about her being the one that's showing more interest.
Form letters can last into the first 5 or 6.
I believe my short but much remembered love affair with the breathtaking Tatiana Botvinkina (TB for short) lasted into the 5th letter.
Saying that, even as a newbie I thought her 2nd letter was laying it on a bit thick. I don’t think she/he would even have sensed my inexperience cos she wouldn’t even have read my replies…she would just be firing out letters to all and sundry.
It was directly after her 5th letter that the alarm bells really rang. The money for “internet club” reared its ubiquitous head.
I did the google thing and hey presto….how my heart was broken…how could she do this to me after the 4 letters I wrote to her.
Gets you thinking tho…lets look at this thing again:- If Tatiana was real she was 26, easy on the eye, well kept figure..a little worn out in some of her fotos…maybe the late nights at the club…maybe the drugs…maybe her boyfriends’ didn’t look after her too well…not to worry..I’d take her away from all that.
Anyway…careful what you wish for…might come true.
Reason I write this is to let you know the MO of some of the players in this market.
Google the above mentioned bint and you should end up with an example of a form letter.
Ask her how many toes she has. Should give you an indication of how much attention she is paying you.
newinthis, you seem to place alot of importance on money. do you think the ukranian girls are any different from the girls in your hometown. Take a model looking girl from ukraine back to your modest little flat and you will be in for a rude awakening.
Nasty indeed lol. Well, 1st letter was introductory 2nd I could not read cause I had to pay which I didn't at the time. One and a half month later she initiates contact by asking if the name I had in the profile is my real one and...
...could not read the rest cause I have to buy credits, remember? It was this sentence that got me all curious; so I've paid to read it and maybe reply etc. In this 3rd letter (though it's the 1st with actual back and forth messaging) she asks for a picture.
All she's saying sounds genuine fellas; she's 35 and I don't think there's plenty of time left to jerk around. To be perfectly honest with you, I'm more worried about the language barrier (though I'm willing to learn Russian if I really fall for her) and more important the lack of higher education on her side. I'd much rather prefer a gal with a degree; alas she's a checkout girl.
I've recently completed my MBA dissertation and I also have an M.Sc. and a B.Eng. - so I do see a big gap there. I do get your point though people; guess too many horror stories around, huh? FWIW, visiting is the only way to find out if she's real or not.
At least I'll get to see her place - looks like a great city. It may cost a bit, but it'd be nice to do sth different for a change. That is, away from computers which occupy 95% of my time anyway.
Thanks for the feedback people; much appreciated. I can deal with a little bit of sarcasm - no worries LOL.
Newinthis: You’re a fairly sharp guy and seem to be trying to get a grip on the process which is commendable however I think you are missing something, well maybe a lot, but one point that jumps out at me is the “Shop Girl” thing.
You’re well, perhaps highly educated and apparently she is not? It is rare in Ukraine or Russia that a woman doesn’t have a fairly decent education but it can and does surface from time to time. At the risk of sounding like a “Silver Tail”, if she is a “Shop Girl” (Not saying one can’t find a nice lady among these groups) through and through, in other words, that is her ambition level, then you will get a shock as to how wide the chasm is socially between the two of you. Frankly, I see that as being impossible to bridge.
On the language side, if you want to develop a relationship with someone who has little or no English, IMO, you are off your trolley planning to learn Russian for that purpose. By the time you get your Russian to a level of depth of discussion the moments will have long passed. Reckon on a year or more of intense learning to become moderately fluent. Even then, many of the nuances will be lost. If you proceed with someone who doesn’t speak English well (Been there and done that and survived, goodness knows how), you are best advised to invest in her learning English. I’m not suggesting don’t learn Russian or Ukrainian, but it is simply not going to fix the problem short term because what you end up with is two people who can partly speak the other’s language and for the most part you will only be learning the opposites of the same basics for quite a while. Therefore the sum total of conversation remains at a very basic level regardless of which language you are using.
So very true on all accounts Dunromin. Indeed I may be missing a lot; probably naive and over-excited over this deal. Getting mail of hot women does not normally happen IRL, so one may be actually thinking with the other head.
Still, the issues of the language & education are major drawbacks in my book although I could have a go at Russian I guess; nothing I can do about the other one.
Having said that, there are hundreds of great looking ladies well-read with degrees etc so maybe it's time to send out a few smiles myself. Though I'm worried that I got hooked on her already.
Once dated a hairdresser...made more money than most women in Ukraine...including those with engineering degrees, doctorates...etc.
Spoke superb English, was very intelligent and ambitious, marvellous breasts.
What more could you want?
You want someone to discuss Tolstoy with?
Issues of langauge?...sure IMO it's a must to communicate effectively.
Education?...way down the list...smarter cookies are earning
Go into a MacD's and ask the girl behind the counter if she's got a degree.
If she has...next question...."how's it working out then?"
Have a nice day.
Kirkland: There are a number of aspects to the education thing. I once argued the same line but have shifted position over the years of hard experience.
The hardest social experience went something like this, I dated (also) a hairdresser from a provincial city in Ukraine. We got along fine, she was a bright spark and one couldn’t ask for more attractive female companionship in any way you like to describe it. We ate out a few times over a few visits and I started to notice something of a pattern. I tested the waters by inviting her to, let’s say a relatively western style restaurant in, let’s say one of the major southern cities of Ukraine. She hadn’t ever had much luxury although she lived rather well. It was my turn to order and I ordered Rib Fillet with several trimmings for both of us. She pushed it around the plate for a while and then sunk her fork into the entire steak, picked it up complete and started to gnaw away at the edges. This was no down market restaurant. Sorry to say but I was not prepared to teach a grown woman basic social graces one would expect her to learn as a child. I cite this as an example, it was not the end in and of itself but it did prompt me to look more and what I found was never going to fit with me socially. I don’t live in the highest restaurants or locations but I do observe basic social graces.
I understand the difference between social and academic education but very much the same things can apply. If a partner is way out of their depth among the other’s social circle or company there will be issues.
Newinthis: “Hooked” is a very dangerous place to be and by your posts, I feel that is exactly where you are. If you don’t mind (So far you haven’t objected too much) a blunt walk down reality street, walk beside me for a moment. Get off your glazed eyed arse, get the dreams out of your head, forget the turkey shoots that all the newchums dream of and get a ticket booked to go visit someone. Right now you are keyboard dreaming like a zillion other out there. There is a small handful (in % terms) of decent women in Russia or Ukraine who will seriously consider (For all the right reasons) marrying a foreigner and moving abroad. You have absolutely no hope of finding one whilst you are “hooked” on photos and fancy profiles. Forget the pay per letter websites, they are a jerkoff for the most part. Search around the period membership sites and read much more than you write. Most importantly, make contact with someone, perhaps anyone, purely on a friendship basis and go visit. I can assure you, the learning experience will far exceed you wildest expectations.
Sending shy “smiles” isn’t going to find you the class of Russian or Ukrainian woman you are dreaming of. For the most part I have found Russian woman are much more comfortable with someone a little more self confident. If you find someone you think fits the criteria, write a decent, SHORT introduction letter and leave the BS out of it. “You are so pretty” etc won’t cut it. 40 local Russian boys who are trying to get in her pants, some of whom will succeed have said the same thing in the last month to her. Be different. Point is, actions speak louder than words and this is very much so in Russian culture. Action here is making a visitation plan and following through with it. Get planning dude and let all of us who think we know something and actually don’t know anything shoot holes in your plans.
"I understand the difference between social and academic education but very much the same things can apply. If a partner is way out of their depth among the other’s social circle or company there will be issues."
So true. It maybe fine for a while spend time with a girl who lets say has no university degree, but when your hanging around with her friends/family who are probably also school drop outs, the conversation isn't going to be interesting to you nor will have have much in common. The opposite would be true, shes hardly going to enjoy talking with you and your friends about the economy or the war in Iraq and isn't going to what to watch the news when mtv is on the other channel. You can only look at her tits for so long before you get bored.
I can tell you have experience on the game and I appreciate your helpful posts. I agree - however, I never said anything crappy like I love you and nor does she. All I did was accept her invitation, but I can only make it early September due to job commitments. Waiting for her answer atm - if she can wait that long, that's fine. If not, tough.
If I'm talking to a computer operator all the while - well, I ain't gonna pissed for long that's for sure. As I said, only been around this poker game since November 08 so please do bear with me being naive and stupid. You've been there yourselves, remember?
Despite the fact that all these scam bastards should go to jail, I give credit to them for setting this up. I got another e-letter today from this striking 30+ blonde saying that she really liked my profile and all that crap; alas she never paid a visit to it.
I admit Dunromin; I'm a glazed eyed keyboard wanker at the moment, but I will definitely visit a couple of southern Ukraine cities in September. In the meantime, would you be kind enough to PM me links of these period membership sites cause I haven't got a clue?
There can be a down side to these edumecated ones.
I had a girl in Russia that was a lawyer. Had her own little business and was doing ok.
The problem was she had only a little English and so my constant thought was, What sort of work is she going to do in NZ, Maybe flip burgers in McDonalds?
Couldnt see this as a good lifestyle for her and it would take 10 years for her to retrain to be a lawyer here.
Often thought it would be better had she worked in a shop, she could come here a work in a shop and earn 10 times the money. Plenty for clothes and makeup.
Certainly agree that the more English they know the better. The lack of English drives me bonkers. Just not that patient
newathis, you stand a real a risk of getting overly attached to someone if they are the only person your corresponding with for the next 6 months. The main risk of doing this is that by the time you get there that you will so much of a personal stake in making it work that you will blind yourself to any signs that you arn't compatible. Tread carefully.
Newinthis: IIRC, you live in southern Europe? If you can’t find the time for 7 months to fly a couple of hours to make a weekend visit, how would you find the time to settle an imported lady into place?
Working on it m8 - she replied and she said she'd much rather prefer like early summer. So I have to change plans for late May hopefully. You seem to be the immediate action sort of guy - it shows determination I agree. Any idea how much would it cost making a surprise weekend visit though? A rough estimate...
You may think I'm being silly - well, I ain't rich that's all. Would you also reply with links of these period membership sites you suggested?
Bassuk's post is on the nail.
If your experience of sour-faced, selfish, up there own arse western women has extended into maturity or middle age, women from fsu are a whole different kettle of fish.
Sure; they can also be temperamental and maybe even a little scornful and have bullshit sulks once in a while.
Difference is they snap out of it pretty quick and won't spend days or weeks brooding about how badly they've been treated.
I've had western women cast things up to me that happened years....I mean years ago!
Never once in my experience have I had an fsu women remind me of a faux pas. At the time I got pelters for doing it…sure…but it didn’t become my identity.
I put this down to the fact that western women are empowered by the punitive measures taken against men who “cross them”. E.g. Divorce laws and other laws designed to keep a woman dependant on her former husband rather than the state.
Fsu women haven’t a clue…they mostly live hand to mouth and day to day. They don’t want to look tooooo much into the future as up until now it’s been pretty much a raw deal.
They seem to have an outlook that concurs with mine:- If all is hopeless and we're merely awaiting disaster, let's enjoy the wait.
Cherries have pits, but we can spit them out.
My own personal opinion is that this is a much better way to live than spending your years educating yourself to the nth degree and end up as a highly qualified accountant working behind the counter at the local Pravda outlet.
I’m always strongly drawn to intelligent women but IMO there’s a difference between intelligent and educated.
It's the results that matter, not the posing.
Self assurance doesn’t come from a book it comes from things like overcoming problems and achieving goals so you can approach life with that little expectation of success that keeps a smile on your face.
Forget the 20 something’s….they’ll drop you as soon as a better prospect comes along, they’re stuck in limbo land between wanting to attain that western experience in all its glory and symbolic shimmering bullshit and her little granny who still remembers gas and bombs.
Get a 30 something who still has it… is looking for that last train..and is willing to get on it (your face that is).
Women in the west usually get divorced later in life and from then on it’s downhill and angst ridden…blaming everyone else for her being the way she is…fsu women just don’t have that baggage.
Been in places where there have been years of conflict, drought, famine and other unmentionable hardships for the locals. Folks who have nothing…every day a struggle for them to get something into their belly…but would still give you half of what they have and do it with a smile. These people have the biggest smiles…the further you move up the ladder towards good ole western civilization the narrower the smile becomes…until you get to where the streets are paved with gold and the ppl prefer misery.
Geez…where am I going with this…oh yeah.. fsu women.
They don’t smile much that’s for sure but when they do and it’s directed at you…it’s for you…makes your knees tremble.
Folks who have nothing…every day a struggle for them to get something into their belly…but would still give you half of what they have and do it with a smile. These people have the biggest smiles… They don’t smile much that’s for sure but when they do and it’s directed at you…it’s for you…makes your knees tremble.
Respect Kirkland. I ain't of Slavic origin personally, but if I was I'd be real honored reading these fine words. Total poetry there mate which is just as well maybe the hunt for discovering such a soul underneath a nice body & a face.