tribalogical - on my first trip over there I thought of it as nothing more than a fact finding mission. I set up dates with several ladies and spaced out the ages from 29 to 42. Some spoke English very well and a couple needed a translator for everything. The 42 yr old spoke no English. And she actually seemed disinterested in everything. Part of that may have been the translator. I had two different ones. One was awesome and the other seemed to be very weak in terms of getting an idea across. If you decide to go and need a translator get some advice from someone experienced with them - not me I only had two translator experiences and they both were on the payroll of an agency. But a good translator can make or break a meeting. And finding a nuetral person would be helpful as well.
There is not much I can add to these posts. I think I might copy/paste the whole string & tack the printed version on the wall in front of my desk. You got a wealth of experience her "new" that could save you a lot the hard way. And this topic didn't get 'gutter bombed"!
Just a little bit from writing to several ladies in the Ukraine. Due to the falling economy (over 15% inflation etc..) I've 'spoken" to some ladies who graduated from Higher Education with a specialty but ended up working as a shop keeper. One lady is a fully degreed engineer but she had to go to where the work was. There was no position available in her expertise. Also there is getting used to the Job Title nuances like; Economist can mean just a simple bookkeeper. Then there are the education differences; Higher Education, College, Technical schools. Education is free in the Ukraine, don't automatically compare with US or UK. There seem to be an awful lot of beauticians in one small country. And I have seen some who put "Nail Designer" down as their job descript. No doubt these are who we can blame the painted & jeweled eagles talons that seem to be popular there. I've seen some that scare the crap out of me! I think it is all witty defense methods. If those eagle talons don't get you it only means you were distracted long enough to not see the tips of those pointed shoes coming up from your 6 'o clock position.
It all comes down to getting past the B.S., little talk & really getting to know in short order if this is someone who matches you. And pay attention to even the small details. I started off naive & on the wrong foot. Most of the guys here were eager to help me out. Stay here & learn who is really wanting to give you constructive help.
Seems to me if you try & take a woman, any woman with limited social skills, a difficulty in adapting to new & complex situations, you are going to have trouble. I learned from Pete's & Oz's blog that many women get here, are isolated by an inability to speak the language so they can't find a job. Difficulty in developing a social network (ie...FRIENDS), severe culture clash. Imagine not being able to get in a taxi or on a bus & communicate much less give exact change... We (newbies) come in just focused on the 'dream'. We haven't considered that finding the woman & getting her here is less than 1/2 the whole story. My point is that seems to be that if you are wanting a real success story you're going to need an exceptional woman.
I don't mean to write an essay here but there is 1 HUGE issue I have never seen addressed her. I am interested in a lady w/ an 11 year old son. My sister adopted a little girl from Latvia & after multiple trips, holding & bonding w/ the baby...at their near final trip a distant relative to the baby popped up & turned the whole thing upside down. It tore my sister up for months. They were finally successful but I never asked how. Right away she sent me a letter asking if the boys father was still alive. Did he still have legal parental rights?? Did the father have extended family & resources? I had never considered any of this. This lady & I have been corresponding since Oct. 9th & just 2 weeks ago the son's Papa caught wind of us corresponding & suddenly started showing a new interest. Confused my lady for all of about 3 days but she has handled it well.
I have been studying Russian for about 3 weeks intensely now. It helps a great deal in our phone conversations. Plus me just wanting to do the 'meet you 1/2 way' route. 75% of any quick memorization goes out the window in the 1st 30 seconds so I am not under any illusions. GF is taking some lessons & her son has been learning English in school for 2 years. I am still broadening my horizons & a very interesting lady sent me a 'Hello" letter. I used Google Translate & sent my entire reply in Russian. Waiting to see if it helped or not. :)) Everything is a learning experience.
I think there are a few posts about the 'children' issue from a while back. Do a search and you should find them. If memory calls, the consensus seemed to be that the biological father needs to sign consent before the child can leave the country. True to FSU form, this is often achieved with a 'payment' (aka bribe). Of course it will differ case by case, but this seemed to be a common recollection.
It is true that the the biological father needs to sign a consent form before the child can leave the country. In most cases (almost all) the biological father has never given any support money to help raise the child since their divorce. So now it becomes a simple "threat" to take him (bioligical father) to court for back child support and he will gladly sign the document which allows you to take the child from Ukraine... this was explained to me by my Ukrainian fiancee.
Ha! ha! this fucking messaging system tried again to loose my message but I copied it before intering the image code... I won!
I now have the habit of [select all/copy] my entire message before clicking on anything!!! Everything from wrong image code to Need To Register - even though my username is displayed just above the $#@! image code. More than once I've had to go all the way back to the topic, paste my text back in & start over. Annoying as hell. I also always hit Refresh before I enter the image code. For some reason it often does not recognize the 1st. It may be a 'time out' while writing text.
The child question is of absorbing interest to me, because most of the women I think of as good candidates for me have a child.
I have not done legal research, so I don't "speak authoritatively" here. But I have become convinced that in Russia at least (perhaps Ukraine is different) there is no authoritative answer to legal questions, because corruption and the structure of bureaucracy means that there can be big inconsistencies.
I believe that both countries are similar to the USA, in that if a remarriage is to be free of the possibility of future interference from the "other parent," that parent must sign away all parental rights. So the key question usually isn't, "will he permit Ilya to leave Ukraine," but rather, "will he renounce all parental rights." Otherwise, he could change his mind in the future (or threaten to) with grave consequences.
In Ukraine, my understanding is that a custodial parent can take their child out of Ukraine for a limited time with permission of the other parent, but beyond that the other parent must consent. I also heard, from a Ukrainian friend who was considering relocating to another country, that if the father's name was not entered on the birth certificate, then no special legal process is necessary (this was the result of her investigation). But of course, don't take this as gospel ... and assuming that this picture is correct, I would not assume that the rules are same in Russia.
In Russia, I have heard that children have some legal obligation to support their parents in their later years, and that this is (at least theoretically) a reason why fathers might oppose giving up parental rights to a child they are not involved with.
If the father says "no," then one can try to buy him off, as mentioned above. But of course some fathers won't accept money, and in such a case, the whole marriage/relocation deal is off. Because this issue is so important, when I make contact with single moms, I am now asking them (sometimes in the first "hello" letter!) can you legally move your child to another country.
I recently met a woman who answered by saying that she had recently gotten all the paperwork completed! But most women answer, "he will give permission," meaning that he hasn't done it yet... and some answer, "no, he will never give permission," in which case it is not very sensible that she is meeting men from other countries (but men in this dating scene are doing things that are almost as illogical as that).
The Ukrainian woman who told me about her researches (she gave up on international marriage, having realized that her ex-husband would never relent), simply advised me "find a woman without children."
The father just in hearing of our correspondence has popped back up. I see this as an issue on the horizon. I am quite fond of this lady but there is still long to go. If There comes a time I am convinced she is for me....well, you take the good with the bad. My daughters have just now reached the point of living on their own. If anytime before that I had found a mate, my daughters & I are a 'package deal'. No debate. Seeking a quality partner from 35-35 yo as I am, the odds are extremely high she is divorced/widowed & has a child. I am.
My sister went thru a living hell on an adoption of an orphan child from a relative long forgotten. This may have posted before but is a good reminder for some of the newbies like me coming along. It's not just the 2 of you. There are some pretty stern & archaic laws in place in a lot of these countries.
"It is true that the the biological father needs to sign a consent form before the child can leave the country. In most cases (almost all) the biological father has never given any support money to help raise the child since their divorce. So now it becomes a simple "threat" to take him (bioligical father) to court for back child support and he will gladly sign the document which allows you to take the child from Ukraine"
Thanks for that Coop. This is probably the case with my gf. I did not know there was child support in Ukraine. She told me he would consent, but I was ready to give some bribe money. This is not something I want to spend a lot on and would try to find ways to get out of. I mentioned that here before and someone took that as my not being serious. One thing I thought of in lieu of a bribe is to tell him that one day, his daughter will be a US citizen and adult. She can then petition him to come to the US.
RB, In my case the paternal father has never provided support over the last 12 years... he is required to help support his child by the divorce decree. He did not (as most all Ukraine and Russian men)help in supporting his child. My Fiancee said her ex-husband is a taxi driver and the judge would require him to sell the taxi to pay the 12 years of support he has avoided. This is a done deal... no blood money from me!
I'm going to copy this message now, then refresh the code, and even though I'm already a member and have already signed in to the forum, I will not loose anything...
I think it came to an 'official end' when it became un-PC to SAY Merry Christmas in public & now only Happy Holidays! About the same time that in schools the big green, triangular shaped tree set up with decorations 'officially' became a 'Holiday Tree'.
The actual commercial stress of spending $ you may not have to be certain every family member & friend received an adequate gift & no feelings of being slighted???? Oh that should fade after the insanity of Return Day on Saturday. Any body think they have a crappy job/ Try being a Customer Service Returns 'associate' at a Wal-Mart or any major department store when the doors open Saturday Dec. 26. It won't be Peace on Earth, Good Will Towards Men on display. :)
THAT, didn't matter to me.......some people will never get a clue, ramble, ramble. It makes me wonder if cut and paste is the norm, same story retold over and over..............then absent minded takes over............